Monogram Series FR-S is official!

[86 South Africa]

Haha. Fascinating reading how bad some of these scion dealers are, and the spec differences. We're a much smaller country/market so I'm surprised.

Here it is a Toyota not a scion, so I got great service when buying mine :-)

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by 86 South Africa

Haha. Fascinating reading how bad some of these scion dealers are, and the spec differences. We're a much smaller country/market so I'm surprised.

Here it is a Toyota not a scion, so I got great service when buying mine :-)

The problem with Scion is:


You have Toyota guys that normally sell RAV4, Camry, and Corolla by the ton, they have this small subset of cars they no nothing about and most customers know even less about.


Scion doesn't advertise so nobody knows who they are.


Monospec is killing business because there are people wanting to spend extra for bells and whistles.


Pure price is a great concept, no games & that's the price -didn't keep Saturn from going under. People feel they are not getting the best deal possible if they acquiesce to what's on the sticker.


The rest of the line up is ho-hum.


Scion was meant for younger consumers and for cars that don't fit the Toyota USDM norm. So far every car under the marque has been in production in every market outside of here (providing the added benefit of tried and true Toyota reliability) -some winners some losers.

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by dnieves

The problem with Scion is:


You have Toyota guys that normally sell RAV4, Camry, and Corolla by the ton, they have this small subset of cars they no nothing about and most customers know even less about.

Scion Ambassador. Each dealership that sells Scions have one. I am one.

Originally Posted by dnieves

Scion doesn't advertise so nobody knows who they are.

Scion advertised like crazy in ESPN.

Originally Posted by dnieves

Monospec is killing business because there are people wanting to spend extra for bells and whistles.

Incorrect. Business fails only when the other sales people don't properly follow the Scion Process. And the other sales people don't properly follow the Scion Process usually because they don't believe in the product or the process. Believing in the product creates excitement, and such excitement is usually perceived as something positive towards the vehicle by the customers. People don't go into dealership having no clue what they're looking for and without any knowledge of how things work. We're in the information age, after all. These "bells and whistles" you're talking about is you wanting the special edition features to be options you can add in the Personalization Process, which I actually think is a good idea. The only conundrum is the "special editions" would no longer be special.

Originally Posted by dnieves

Pure price is a great concept, no games & that's the price -didn't keep Saturn from going under. People feel they are not getting the best deal possible if they acquiesce to what's on the sticker.

And that's the only issue some people don't get. Pure Price doesn't just take away the haggling, but allows the MSRP to be so low, the money the dealerships make is a thousand or two less than the Toyotas. (ie: iM = Corolla S Plus [but with slightly more stuff] equivalent, yet iM is $20k MSRP and Corolla S Plus is $21k. Add the missing features and you'd be looking closer to $22k-$23k.)

Originally Posted by dnieves

The rest of the line up is ho-hum.

To us? Sure. We drive FR-S/BRZs. The only next closest sporty car is the tC. If Scion was only catering to those looking for cheap sporty cars, then not only will their line up be only the FR-S and tC, but their sales number would also be significantly less. But no. Their target market are the teens, young adults and those looking for inexpensive cars that meets their needs, whether you're a track fiend or a high school student or college student or graduate or successful person.

Originally Posted by dnieves

Scion was meant for younger consumers and for cars that don't fit the Toyota USDM norm. So far every car under the marque has been in production in every market outside of here (providing the added benefit of tried and true Toyota reliability) -some winners some losers.

Exactly. People used to complain that Toyota's vehicles were getting old with its market, meaning they needed a way to tap into the younger generation for they are the future buyers, and building brand loyalty from their customers at a young age is a smart way to go.

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Scion Ambassador. Each dealership that sells Scions have one. I am one.



Scion advertised like crazy in ESPN.

So the only demographic that would purchase a SCION is a sports watching male? What happened to the other networks the other car manufacturers advertise one (probably not in the budget) but then again as per their commercials you'd never know Subaru has a BRZ.

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Incorrect. Business fails only when the other sales people don't properly follow the Scion Process. And the other sales people don't properly follow the Scion Process usually because they don't believe in the product or the process. Believing in the product creates excitement, and such excitement is usually perceived as something positive towards the vehicle by the customers. People don't go into dealership having no clue what they're looking for and without any knowledge of how things work. We're in the information age, after all. These "bells and whistles" you're talking about is you wanting the special edition features to be options you can add in the Personalization Process, which I actually think is a good idea. The only conundrum is the "special editions" would no longer be special.

I think the problem is Scion customers want a choice (like Subaru did with the Limited and Premium). If you want bare bones get the base model, if you want HID/push button start/etc get a deluxe model, if you want TRD accessories and etc order (like heated seats/mirrors) them as options (makes the dealership more money and keeps customers happy). If you want the limited buy that -> a limited edition should be like what Scion did with the tC spec series and Honda did with the Si Mugen(special color/limited edition wheels) not just raiding the parts bins of extras we want that everybody like Hyundai already has. Case in point, every FR-S should have HID (maybe the special edition can have the Corolla's LED headlights). I was thisclose to purchasing a BRZ for the bells and whistles (despite loving the FR-S's front bumper skin) luckily I liked silver ignition and went for a ten series instead.

Originally Posted by PhantomX

And that's the only issue some people don't get. Pure Price doesn't just take away the haggling, but allows the MSRP to be so low, the money the dealerships make is a thousand or two less than the Toyotas. (ie: iM = Corolla S Plus [but with slightly more stuff] equivalent, yet iM is $20k MSRP and Corolla S Plus is $21k. Add the missing features and you'd be looking closer to $22k-$23k.).

Human nature.... everybody thinks they can beat the salesman.

Originally Posted by PhantomX

To us? Sure. We drive FR-S/BRZs. The only next closest sporty car is the tC. If Scion was only catering to those looking for cheap sporty cars, then not only will their line up be only the FR-S and tC, but their sales number would also be significantly less. But no. Their target market are the teens, young adults and those looking for inexpensive cars that meets their needs, whether you're a track fiend or a high school student or college student or graduate or successful person.

Others must find their lineup less than exciting as the sales prove it. In the northeast (please jump in fellow forum members) the only Scions I ever see on the road (in NY/NJ/PA) are mostly 1st gen tCs and (1& 2nd gen) xBs, I see a lot of 2nd gen tCs (not as many as 1st gen) and the occasional FR-S. Where are the iA and iMs (not to mention the discontinued models)? Nobody will buy them unless Toyota promotes them. I've felt like a Scion employee since the purchase of my '08 tC years ago explaining the brand to young and old alike and its relationship with Toyota (could be worse -could be Hyundai).

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Exactly. People used to complain that Toyota's vehicles were getting old with its market, meaning they needed a way to tap into the younger generation for they are the future buyers, and building brand loyalty from their customers at a young age is a smart way to go.

I like Scion a lot they're a very good value (this FR-S is my second Scion) and reading about how dealerships were able to opt out of Scion/have no presence in the media/have salespeople that haven't done their homework makes me wonder about the brand (though you do seem well indoctrinated).

[Wind2017]

I want the scions body but the subaru push to start and heated seats : (

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Wind2017

I want the scions body but the subaru push to start and heated seats : (

A lot of people feel this way...

But Scion has only released the 10 series which a lot of people think has a lot of "Ricey" features as well (light up badges etc)

And the Monogram, which is yellow...which a lot of people do not care for).

If Scion was to release a "Luxury" FR-S which was normal colors/options and had better controls etc and seat material...I think it would sell.

Or I can be the millionth person on here say, "Release a Toyota FR-S in the U.S." Then again people would complain if the price went up etc.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

You were correct about the 10 series @Atropine

You've got it wayyyyy wrong with the other stuff buddy

The Monogram came in black (I think that's raven) or white (whiteout?) here in the U.S. and it came with :

• Leather seats with Alcantara® inserts
• BeSpoke® Premium Audio with navigation and connected services
• Smart Key with push button start
• HID headlamps with LED daytime running lights
• Dual-zone automatic climate control system
• Heated front seats
• Heated outside mirrors
• Frameless rearview mirror
• Color-keyed rear spoiler
• Rear-seat center armrest
• Carpet cargo mat

The RS 1.0 came in Yuzu (Yellow) which came with all of the above stuff plus a bunch of TRD goodies that came in 2015

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

You were correct about the 10 series @Atropine

You've got it wayyyyy wrong with the other stuff buddy

The Monogram came in black (I think that's raven) or white (whiteout?) here in the U.S. and it came with :

• Leather seats with Alcantara® inserts
• BeSpoke® Premium Audio with navigation and connected services
• Smart Key with push button start
• HID headlamps with LED daytime running lights
• Dual-zone automatic climate control system
• Heated front seats
• Heated outside mirrors
• Frameless rearview mirror
• Color-keyed rear spoiler
• Rear-seat center armrest
• Carpet cargo mat

The RS 1.0 came in Yuzu (Yellow) which came with all of the above stuff plus a bunch of TRD goodies that came in 2015

You are right...I got them confused. I wish the RS came in black or that nice looking grey. I would probably have one if it did.

I sold my BRZ Limited (moved...inherited a nice Miata) but I am looking to get back into another twin soon-ish. Just have other RL stuff to take care of first...the 4Runner is almost paid off...

But yeah I would look into a BRZ Limited or if Toyota/Scion was to do a new limited edition in a non-obnoxious color to me (I am 35 so kinda an old man) I would get one over the Subaru.

Also I really don't like the baby blue new Subaru color. The Twins are tuner car so I 100% get the non-standard colors.

[Tcoat]

It won't let me quote you there @FRSBRZGT86FAN but although close you still missed by a little. The Monograms came in all the colours in the US. Canada only got black white and if I remember right silver (So I could still be wrong as well).

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by Wind2017

I want the scions body but the subaru push to start and heated seats : (

Those seats in winter = real plus!
Push start is cool, but nothing so amazing I'd look out for it when buying another car...
Rimless rear view mirror is ace as are most of the other features :-)

I don't have silly light-up badges though.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by 86 South Africa

I don't have silly light-up badges though.

Neither does the monogram...

For people confused about the monogram, just think of it as an American GT86 Limited.

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by Atropine

A lot of people feel this way...

But Scion has only released the 10 series which a lot of people think has a lot of "Ricey" features as well (light up badges etc)

And the Monogram, which is yellow...which a lot of people do not care for).

If Scion was to release a "Luxury" FR-S which was normal colors/options and had better controls etc and seat material...I think it would sell.

Or I can be the millionth person on here say, "Release a Toyota FR-S in the U.S." Then again people would complain if the price went up etc.

Ricey feature... the small badges and interior light up Scion a FEW seconds only when you turn the car on. Jeez, if that's ricey what do you call (the always lit while the car is running) Mercedes grill logo?


The '14 Monogram is the one what can in all colors (except for Canada their selection was limited) and had almost every bell and whistle. The yuzu yellow is the '15 Release Series 1.0.


If they released the FR-S in Toyota then Scion will have to pray tC sales will keep them afloat until another halo car comes along.


P.S. if the FR-S were released as a Toyota an even bigger deal about the crickets will be made (BUT it'd be probably solved).

[xrs]

Originally Posted by dnieves

Ricey feature... the small badges and interior light up Scion a FEW seconds only when you turn the car on. Jeez, if that's ricey what do you call (the always lit while the car is running) Mercedes grill logo?

I think most people use the term "ricey" nowadays when an item or part feels like an afterthought (aftermarket). The main thing with all the interior lighting features were that they didn't do a great job integrating it into the rest of the scheme that the car had going. It became a mashup of a bunch of different colors. What makes it frustrating is that it would've been an easy fix. To me that just says they really didn't care to think things through and it was last minute job.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by xrs

I think most people use the term "ricey" nowadays when an item or part feels like an afterthought (aftermarket). The main thing with all the interior lighting features were that they didn't do a great job integrating it into the rest of the scheme that the car had going. It became a mashup of a bunch of different colors. What makes it frustrating is that it would've been an easy fix. To me that just says they really didn't care to think things through and it was last minute job.

Things only become "ricey" when somebody other than the owner doesn't like them.


There is no such thing as a "last minute job" in the auto industry. As much as they may seem to be an afterthought there would have been a pile of work that went into the planning of those light up badges.


The marketing people would have to say "we need something to make it stand out"


A team of design engineers would have drafted several proposals and mock ups.


The marketing crowd would then look at all these proposals (there may have been hundreds) and perform research as to what would probably be in demand from the public.


The list would get narrowed down to a few that would be deemed to be the most acceptable.


The design engineers would now go into greater detail in specing those actual parts.


The proposals would be sent to purchasing to determine costing and production for a review on the impact on the assembly line (yes even something as small as some lights can cost time and time is money in assembly).


The final numbers would be sent to a management review team to decide what proposals would give the best ROE and approval. The rest of the ideas would be scrapped.


The Purchasing people would now put the manufacture of the parts out for tender, determine a supplier and make a contract.


The line changes would be made for that particular part(s). These changes although they seem minor will impact the whole assembly process.


The marketing people would put together the promotional materials to hype up the change and try to sell more cars.


All of this would have happened years before the car was even being made.


So in summary, there would have been a pile of thought put into those light up badges and the mash up of different colours was exactly what they thought people would want. They may have been wrong but it wasn't that they didn't care or threw them on at the last minute.