Why the Toyota 86 is a Great Car.

[cycleboy]

I know the Miata is ranked as a great driving car, but I've never been able to get over how cutesy they look. It just doesn't say sportscar like the 86 does.

[kdmBRZ]

great summary and reading OP, i'm glad to be part of this GT86/BRZ history!

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by userjack6880

The Miata is still arguably considered a great, small, RWD sports car that is also fun to drive and is reliable. Cheap to mod and maintain as well. The FR-S has easily slipped into the territory of that legend and point-for-point is as close to that as possible. The S2000 is another example, but can be more car than some can handle.

I have a nice big mod list for the car, but by the end of the day, it'll remain a NA car. That keeps the car relatively reliable, simple, and cheap (ish) to maintain. That's the magic of this car, IMO. It is a new gem of the auto enthusiast world like the Miata was (and in some ways, still is). It's also still very approachable to more people - it appeals to nearly every niche segment of the fun car market - it can be tracked, autox'd, modded, slammed, or simply left alone and used as a really good looking and reliable DD.

There are many other examples but I singled out the car I felt had done it the best. The Miata deserves is accolades. The best selling sports car of all time, Car and Drivers 10 best 14 times. Other vehicles that come to mind are the S2000, MR2, Elise... These cars are all true sports cars, and I would be equally happy with any of them, although I've always been a Toyota fan.

Originally Posted by bluesman

Originally Posted by FRSupra
"I'd like to go back a little, to the late 80's. This is when what I believe was the golden age of automotive achievement."

I'm with you 101%, except for the above quote. Sure, the NSX was (and still is) a great car. But it hardly typifies the industry in the late '80s. The 959 was developed in 1981 on a platform designed in 1964 - evolution, not revolution, and hardly innovative.

Like I said, some of it was based off my opinion. The golden age of being a time when the Japanese were on top (coming from someone who prefers them ). The devotion to detail was awe inspiring. It didn't just have to work, it had to stay working. And, (this part is important to my point) to have those cars at that time made it even more amazing. For example, in 1991 the NSX:



While a brand new Ford Taurus (one of the best selling cars in 91) looked like this:



and most of the cars on the road were years old, so most likely you'd see something like this:



Today, even entry level passenger cars are made to look expensive and sporty. A lot of the technology offered now in even sports car's does nothing more for me, another reason why I like the FR-S's 90's feel interior. It's almost like there is no standard anymore and anything goes. Back then there was discipline and passion, and it was not all about the money.

[chas3wba0]

The problem is that there's too much focus on horsepower these days, thanks to the steady decrease of driving "purists" out there and the resulting increase in huge, overpowered cars on the market that all but drive themselves provided the driver knows how to mash on the gas pedal on a more-or-less straight runway.

Thus, niche cars like the 86 will always face complaints about how its power numbers "don't measure up to modern cars". It's tragic, really.

[sprintertrueno86]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

The problem is that there's too much focus on horsepower these days, thanks to the steady decrease of driving "purists" out there and the resulting increase in huge, overpowered cars on the market that all but drive themselves provided the driver knows how to mash on the gas pedal on a more-or-less straight runway.

Thus, niche cars like the 86 will always face complaints about how its power numbers "don't measure up to modern cars". It's tragic, really.

Especially commercials about how these FWD family sedans have "the most HP in it's class." Horsepower sells. Murrrica.

[billwot]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

The problem is that there's too much focus on horsepower these days, thanks to the steady decrease of driving "purists" out there and the resulting increase in huge, overpowered cars on the market that all but drive themselves provided the driver knows how to mash on the gas pedal on a more-or-less straight runway.

Thus, niche cars like the 86 will always face complaints about how its power numbers "don't measure up to modern cars". It's tragic, really.

Bob Hall, the engineer responsible for the design of the original MX5 Miata is famous (at least among Miataphiles) for this quote:

"If you can't go fast with 90 HP, then 900 won't help you!"

As Hall himself once explained, “If you can’t go fast on 90 horsepower, 900 horsepower probably won’t help you.” - See more at: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/t....xEIKTFkC.dpuf

As Hall himself once explained, “If you can’t go fast on 90 horsepower, 900 horsepower probably won’t help you.” - See more at: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/t....xEIKTFkC.dpuf

[Gilwith1l]

Every time I drive mine I am reminded I don't need a ten second street car to put a smile on my face

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

I've always been a Toyota fan.

We've been with them a looong time. My wife's first car was a brand new '68 Corona coupe that her father got her over her objections when she was in college (she wanted a Cutlass). One of her father's closest friends owned a body shop in West Philly and saw a future in Toyota, so he became the first dealer in the area. I bought my FR-S from the same dealership, now operated by his son, daughter and grandkids.

Originally Posted by FRSupra

I like the FR-S's 90's feel interior.

Here's where you need a few more miles on your own odometer to appreciate the context. It's not a '90s feel - my first thought on getting in my FR-S was how much it feels like my 356 Porsches (I've had 6). The firm but comfortable seats, the back-from-the-wheel position with arms comfortably out, the taught suspension, quick steering and firm responsive brakes are all reminiscent of the best sports cars of the '50s and early '60s. Alfa Giulia Sprint 1600s felt like this too.

And just like those cars, ours are not for everybody. Many (most?) people couldn't understand why anyone would pay the asking price for a 60 hp Porsche when you could get a 200+ hp American car for less. But if you could appreciate the balance, the connection between the driver and the road, the simple and direct feel of it as an extension of your own senses and muscles, you didn't have to ask. We struggling students bought them used (in some cases, like my blue-and-rust '57 Normal coupe, very used) - and they were wonderful.

The FR-S / BRZ gives me the same feeling - it's old, yet it's ageless.

[dem00n]

WOAH.

Who dissed the First Gen Ford Taurus?

The SHO model had a manual transmission by Mazda and one of the greatest V6's ever made, Yamaha made it!



They're a great bargain, you can pick one for dirt cheap.

[Sideways&Smiling]

The NSX comparison is pretty odd, considering its price, performance, and, most of all, the fact that it was a mid-engined car! Far different than an FR car.

[Wise]

God I'd still love an NSX. The greatest Japanese car ever built IMO.

Even good enough for Harvey "The Wolf" Keitel.

[mothespaceman]

Coming from quite a few different cars with much more power, both Japanese and American, I can say that I haven't ever really experienced a car like this before.

Though my previous roster hasn't always reflected this, I've always been the type of dude who is more interested in what the car really 'IS' underneath. Why was it made? What went into designing it? What was it really intended to do?

In the age of 'power and speed rules all' that we are in right now, it seems to be pretty bold of Toyota and Subaru to do this joint venture and be completely confident that they made the right decision with the power output.

I cant say that I don't look at JR Supercharger kits everyday wanting more power, but the manufactures confidence gives me confidence that this car was purpose built, and reminds me how fantastic the car is just the way it is now.

Much like the Miata, this car is NOT for everyone, but for those who seem to 'get' it, this might be the best car in the world.

[Yoniyama]

I think the NSX is the greatest super-car, ever. (I believe this sentiment is also shared by Gordon Murray, the designer of Maclaren F1.)

As for the Toybaru, I am thankful that Toyota and Subaru pulled off the most improbable feat, in restoring fun and excitement for real drivers with shallow pockets. The FT86 is a great track car that is also driveable on the road for the mass.

While the design is ingenious, the implementation falls flat. The FT86 feels like it is assembled by FIAT using Chinese fake parts. The real price of FT86 is actually US$30,000 for the car, less US$4,000 rebate to the buyer for participating in the testing programme of its Beta pre-production version, = US$26,000.

Some people bemoan the lack of technical improvement with 2015 model - (new dampers, bolts, and a shark-fin antenna). I suspect most of the improvement lies under the skin to lift the general quality standard up to the original design specification.

In another words, the real production run at the Gunma Main Plant only commences in May 2015.

[Wise]

I have a friend who's dad still owns the Mazda RX-4 he bought new 40 years ago in 1975.

I'd love to have my GT86 sitting in my garage 40 years from now. Though it might have been converted to an alternate fuel technology by then with the way things look right now.