Twins vs 2015 z06

[enjetek]

[PhoKingCool]

I am seriously laughing right now. This thread is such a waste of time to skim though but I must return just to see what absurd and irrelevant remarks are left.

[Atropine]

@Jaden

Your PM is fascinating man. For privacy purposes...I will not tell people what you told me..but I will say if he can get his idea to work...it will be awesome.

But one thing about this argument...

You do not represent the average backyard mechanic.

Your argument brings me back to the surgeon analogy...

I don't tell people they are stupid because they didn't do their own cardiac cath.

Very few people on this planet can do what I do...

That said...the last time I changed my own oil...I had to buy a new oil pan (forgot crush washer...doh)

I think you are totally qualified to build up a car yourself.

The thing is...you are a pro.

Let an average backyard mechanic year old try to do this them self...and they end up with a car that will indeed blow up and probably come apart and kill someone.

To say someone is "foolish to pay someone to do something that they can do them self" is a little misleading.

Most of us here who can either do a build them self (like a mechanic) or can PAY someone to do a build for them (someone who can afford to drop 70k into a toy car) are all professionals in SOMETHING.

Rather than try to crack my engine open and fiddle around in there and break something...I rather pull a little extra call...make a few grand over a weekend and do what I know how to do...and then use that money to pay someone who knows what they are doing.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Atropine

@Jaden

Your PM is fascinating man. For privacy purposes...I will not tell people what you told me..but I will say if he can get his idea to work...it will be awesome.

But one thing about this argument...

You do not represent the average backyard mechanic.

Your argument brings me back to the surgeon analogy...

I don't tell people they are stupid because they didn't do their own cardiac cath.

Very few people on this planet can do what I do...

That said...the last time I changed my own oil...I had to buy a new oil pan (forgot crush washer...doh)

I think you are totally qualified to build up a car yourself.

The thing is...you are a pro.

Let an average backyard mechanic year old try to do this them self...and they end up with a car that will indeed blow up and probably come apart and kill someone.

To say someone is "foolish to pay someone to do something that they can do them self" is a little misleading.

Most of us here who can either do a build them self (like a mechanic) or can PAY someone to do a build for them (someone who can afford to drop 70k into a toy car) are all professionals in SOMETHING.

Rather than try to crack my engine open and fiddle around in there and break something...I rather pull a little extra call...make a few grand over a weekend and do what I know how to do...and then use that money to pay someone who knows what they are doing.

Did he tell you his idea for a perpetual motion machine?

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Did he tell you his idea for a perpetual motion machine?

LOL no.

Not wanting to "give it away", but it essentially boils down to an extremely efficient turbo system that would reduce friction and lost energy.

Now as far as his claim on not stressing internals...I don't see it being able to do that.

But more efficient engines/turbo systems are doable.

But I also think it goes into the classic car guy saying...

Speed, inexpensive, reliable... Pick two.

Also my point is...of course someone who can fabricate parts them self or they work at a junkyard and can get parts for super cheap...yeah they can do things for cheaper than a guy who does not have those alternatives.

While in military...I got to fire all kinds of big weapons for "free". That doesn't mean that if I want to unload with an M-60 or a SAW (think belt-fed M-16) for an hour...it will cost me a lot in rental fees and in ammo.

The whole, "build a twin to be a Z06 beater" falls into that same thing.

Sure, if you dad is the guy who runs Cobb tuning...I bet you can get a "deal".

Just like how CJSporl can keep dumping money into his BRZ...some people just have more options for various reasons.

[Twin4Life]

I re-tooled at home, my Huffy has become a Ducati killer.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Atropine

LOL no.

Not wanting to "give it away", but it essentially boils down to an extremely efficient turbo system that would reduce friction and lost energy.

Sure, axial compressors are cool (and very efficient at large scale, though they generally don't scale down well due to tip clearance issues and the large stage count required to get a good compression ratio), but that still doesn't avoid the isentropic heating, it'll still require an intercooler, and the air coming out the back will still be very hot.

In addition, modern turbos run at or near their peak efficiency point already run at >75% efficiency. Sure, a really good axial compressor can maybe do better (although I'm not convinced of that - see the next paragraph for details), but you're trading off a lot of complexity and cost to achieve that. An axial flow compressor can only achieve a pressure ratio of 1.2-1.3 or so per stage, you'll need a 3-5 stage axial compressor to get 15-20psi of boost. Efficiency is highly dependent on tip clearance too, which will require some pretty high end materials and machining (since you want to maintain as close to zero tip clearance as possible while spinning at very high speeds and across a wide range of temperatures).

In addition, although in large applications (jet engines, power plants), axial compressors are without question more efficient than centrifugal, I'm not convinced that's the case for small ones. Issues with achieving the right spin speed and tip clearance on a small compressor can wipe out almost all of your efficiency gains, and you also have a much longer driveshaft to balance and support at extreme RPM (and if it starts flexing, you can crash your blades into the housing, since you want as little blade clearance as possible for efficiency). The physical size of an axial compressor is also a lot larger than a centrifugal for the same flow and pressure ratio. These factors are enough of a problem even on larger engines that many smaller turbine engines (especially helicopter and turboprop engines) actually still use centrifugal compressors. The Pratt and Whitney PT6 is a good example of this.

That having been said, if you do get around to making this design work, I'd be curious to see pictures/details. Even though I doubt the gain is worth the amount of effort it will take, it still sounds like a fun engineering project.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Sure, axial compressors are cool (and very efficient at large scale, though they generally don't scale down well due to tip clearance issues and the large stage count required to get a good compression ratio), but that still doesn't avoid the isentropic heating, it'll still require an intercooler, and the air coming out the back will still be very hot.

In addition, modern turbos run at or near their peak efficiency point already run at >75% efficiency. Sure, a really good axial compressor can maybe do better (although I'm not convinced of that - see the next paragraph for details), but you're trading off a lot of complexity and cost to achieve that. An axial flow compressor can only achieve a pressure ratio of 1.2-1.3 or so per stage, you'll need a 3-5 stage axial compressor to get 15-20psi of boost. Efficiency is highly dependent on tip clearance too, which will require some pretty high end materials and machining (since you want to maintain as close to zero tip clearance as possible while spinning at very high speeds and across a wide range of temperatures).

In addition, although in large applications (jet engines, power plants), axial compressors are without question more efficient than centrifugal, I'm not convinced that's the case for small ones. Issues with achieving the right spin speed and tip clearance on a small compressor can wipe out almost all of your efficiency gains, and you also have a much longer driveshaft to balance and support at extreme RPM (and if it starts flexing, you can crash your blades into the housing, since you want as little blade clearance as possible for efficiency). The physical size of an axial compressor is also a lot larger than a centrifugal for the same flow and pressure ratio. These factors are enough of a problem even on larger engines that many smaller turbine engines (especially helicopter and turboprop engines) actually still use centrifugal compressors. The Pratt and Whitney PT6 is a good example of this.

That having been said, if you do get around to making this design work, I'd be curious to see pictures/details. Even though I doubt the gain is worth the amount of effort it will take, it still sounds like a fun engineering project.

The axial compressor supercharger is NOT what I was referring to.

It's an entirely different project.

Jaden

[murdoc]

Is it a comprex? lol

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Twin4Life

I re-tooled at home, my Huffy has become a Ducati killer.

I easily made a Huffy a ducati killer, by strapping a parachute on my back...

Jaden

[inertia]

For all you Z06 lovers and engine-swap-haters out there... look up some of these fabulous builds:

@JoeDrifter @jet86 @Drift&Drag @WTF @slicktop @puma @OmarGC @SmsAlSuwaidi @FullBlown

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by inertia

For all you Z06 lovers and engine-swap-haters out there... look up some of these fabulous builds:

@JoeDrifter @jet86 @Drift&Drag @WTF @slicktop @puma @OmarGC @SmsAlSuwaidi @FullBlown

its not that those builds arent great. its just that they arent going to go as fast as the vette for as long as the vette while being as cheap as the vette

[abraxis]

Fwiw, the article I recall had an Evo with about $12k in mods beat a stock GTR round the track.


Twins are obviously superior to any low mileage C7's with blown engines, faulty brakes and airbags. Go GM! /thread

[CK_Bladesmith]

Here's my c7 z51 (not z06 but who cares), and my frs.



Both are amazing cars. The only point I'm going to make about these cars is this: The frs is liked more by guys, and the corvette is liked more by the ladies. No matter what modifications you do to your frs, it's probably not gonna pull much ***** compared to the corvette (unless you like high school girls). Let's not forget about resale value and all that junk. The frs, no matter how much money you put into it, will never be even a base model c7 stingray. They feel totally different in good ways. Anyway, enjoy the hurt feelings.