Considering an AT

[Jakinit]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

My great grandmother, grandmother and mother all drove manuals almost exclusively. So did anybody else's if they are over 30. It didn't "take balls" for them to do it. Doesn't take anything to learn to drive a manual. It isn't magic or some special skill and sure as hell isn't a "craft".


Driving is an art but do all artists use the same type of brush?

Not that I'm with Mule, but I have to say it is becoming more and more of an "art" as less and less drivers know how to use one. I mean there's a reason people joke around that having a manual in the US is like having an extra security system on your car.

I like manual because it's lighter, I've driven one for many years so when I am not focused I shift without thinking so it might as well be AT and when I want to have some fun I just "zone in", and if I need to repair it when it fails it is cheaper and easier than the AT. I love the MT and wouldn't ever make the AT choice, but that's just my personal preference.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by fierostetz

Thats an MT, on a vht prepped surface with a professional driver.
Jeezus, stop looking for a fight.

That's why I recently blocked Tcoat (thank god I found that feature, thx whoever pointed that out!) - guy loves to antagonize ppl and seek out confrontation where it doesn't yet exist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jakinit

Not that I'm with Mule, but I have to say it is becoming more and more of an "art" as less and less drivers know how to use one. I mean there's a reason people joke around that having a manual in the US is like having an extra security system on your car.

I like manual because it's lighter, I've driven one for many years so when I am not focused I shift without thinking so it might as well be AT and when I want to have some fun I just "zone in", and if I need to repair it when it fails it is cheaper and easier than the AT. I love the MT and wouldn't ever make the AT choice, but that's just my personal preference.

Your method of driving MT is the same as mine.


Still doesn't make in an "art" just less common. The methods have not changed. Well actually that isn't true either. The use of a MT has gotten far far easier over the years. My (and most peoples) maternal ancestors drove MT with no hydraulic clutches, synchros or electronic aids..

[fierostetz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

And the minivans aren't?
How is it possible to say "those numbers don't count be these ones from the same source do"?
I repeat. Not "looking for a fight" but I disagree with your statements and will say so.
All data shows that most minivans are NOT faster and those that are have such a small advantage it almost is meaningless in real world driving.
Your Statement was "thoroughly dusted by minivans" and that is nothing but internet commenter myth.

How is pulling information from a website without personal experience not internet commenter myth? I've driven several 86's over the last 4 years, I own an Abarth that has been consistently quicker than any 86 I've encountered (nobody can launch them, its always bog or spin), and I just finished renting a honda odyssey a few months ago that was neck and neck with my Abarth. So, anecdotally, but based on real world experience, I stand by my statement. Nothing was done on prepped surfaces or performed by a professional driver, but it's at least based on real world experience.

I personally don't care how quick an 86 is to 60, I can buy darned near any car I want, but the 86 was fun in the corners the way my Abarth is ****heading around in day-to-day. Yes, I said "****heading" :P

I like the Abarth because it's the car equivalent of shotgunning a beer, or intentionally farting in an elevator. But I'm looking at the 86 because I'd like something (quieter!!!) that is fun in corners. If I just cared about acceleration I wouldn't have sold my Grand National.

lol there's also THIS honda odyssey, it looks pretty quick [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivRj0wa_opc"]1000+hp Bisimoto Honda Odyssey Van Burnouts! - YouTube[/ame]

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by Jakinit

Not that I'm with Mule, but I have to say it is becoming more and more of an "art" as less and less drivers know how to use one. I mean there's a reason people joke around that having a manual in the US is like having an extra security system on your car.

I like manual because it's lighter, I've driven one for many years so when I am not focused I shift without thinking so it might as well be AT and when I want to have some fun I just "zone in", and if I need to repair it when it fails it is cheaper and easier than the AT. I love the MT and wouldn't ever make the AT choice, but that's just my personal preference.

Ive been drive MT for a long time in stop n go city traffic it has never bothered me. Its all muscle memory and I really don't ever think about it.
AT is for the Millennial who want to Text n Drive and don't have a third hand to shift a manual.

[Twinz]

My wife and I own and drive both an AT twin and a MT twin. She uses the AT as a DD and we both use it as our non-track car for road trips and and stuff.

I get to drive a lot of cars at the track, including a lot of AT cars, and the twins have my favorite slush-box of any AT car I have driven. It shifts quickly and, in sport mode, does what I would have done 98% of the time. (-Meaning I don't even paddle-shift AT twins on track)

The main down-side to the AT is the launch. The AT leaves a big chunk of time at the start vs the MT and can't make it up.

If you want an AT that is still fun, these are great cars. If you ever intend to compete, you will need to get a MT.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fierostetz

How is pulling information from a website without personal experience not internet commenter myth? I've driven several 86's over the last 4 years, I own an Abarth that has been consistently quicker than any 86 I've encountered (nobody can launch them, its always bog or spin), and I just finished renting a honda odyssey a few months ago that was neck and neck with my Abarth. So, anecdotally, but based on real world experience, I stand by my statement. Nothing was done on prepped surfaces or performed by a professional driver, but it's at least based on real world experience.

I personally don't care how quick an 86 is to 60, I can buy darned near any car I want, but the 86 was fun in the corners the way my Abarth is ****heading around in day-to-day. Yes, I said "****heading" :P

I like the Abarth because it's the car equivalent of shotgunning a beer, or intentionally farting in an elevator. But I'm looking at the 86 because I'd like something (quieter!!!) that is fun in corners. If I just cared about acceleration I wouldn't have sold my Grand National.

lol there's also THIS honda odyssey, it looks pretty quick

I don't care how fast either really. My real world experience over 4 years and 100K miles is that I have never had a minivan "dust" me yet.
I am not saying for one second the car is a drag racer just that this common statement of faster minivans is not real world info either. Now a 1000hp Odyssey (when you have to get the kids to soccer NOW) is going to kick EVERYODY'S ass so the whole AT vs MT debate becomes moot at that point.

[fierostetz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Now a 1000hp Odyssey (when you have to get the kids to soccer NOW) is going to kick EVERYODY'S ass so the whole AT vs MT debate becomes moot at that point.

I love that it has the roof carrier still lol

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fierostetz

I love that it has the roof carrier still lol

Gotta' have someplace for the soccer balls!

[Submarinesonce]

Originally Posted by LudwigMiles

I own a MT BRZ.



It's harder to be an ricer idiot and abuse an AT.



Why?



That means you know how to drive a sports car.
Many MT guys do not.
If they say the main advantage of MT is "fun", they have no idea what they're talking about.

Pro race car drivers don't have MT or DCT paddles b/c it's "fun". They have it because they can control the gears manually, and optimize HP and torque curve.



Was the test done using AT's manual mode where the engine reached 7k rpms for each gear?



If the AT is in manual mode and the driver knows how to keep in the high revs, in the real world, the AT drivers would blow MT guys off the road.

Why? On the track, the ability to downshift rapidly is huge.
If you don't heel/toe, you will get blown away by an AT.
Guess what makes heel/toe obsolete? Yup, DCT & paddles.
It allows a much shorter braking zone, which is why heel/toe is critical for track racing.



The ability to shift gears while braking (AT manual paddles) will blow away the negative of 44 extra pounds.



On a track, AT cars will blow away a clueless ricer with a MT. Even if both know to keep revs about 4k at all times, the AT manual mode can downshift 2 gears instantly.
An AT will blow you off the track in Turn 7 at Watkins Glen every time. You simply will never downshift 2 gears faster than a paddle.

Oh, and in the real world, all of this is meaningless.



You mean AT guys are going faster...



Right, if you are comparing 0-60 times, you bought the wrong car.
You need a Mustang or Camaro.

I own a MT BRZ.

You act like a heel toe is witchcraft or something. Im pretty good at it, not 100%, but close enough to trust my ability to do it while driving 10/10ths. with the tune on my car adding a 2step and flat shifting, id say im very nearly as consistent on the launch as an at as well. even without that stuff, driving a MT just isn't very difficult, and is second nature with a little practice. The AT isn't awful, and there's no reason not to buy one if you don't attend the 3 pedal church

[mrg666]

So a minivan wins a drag race against an AT twin and you guys are so much concerned about it? That is a drag race, do you expect a minivan has any chance on the track against any twin? Track is where a twin as a sports car has advantage. You should all be driving a Dodge Challenger!

There is data all over the place from 6.2 seconds to 7.x seconds for both MT and AT. Nobody is arguing that AT launches as fast as an MT. What is the point of constantly pointing out 0-60 numbers? Around the corners though, MT and AT are both as fast as the driver can drive them.

This thread is stupid!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mrg666

..This thread is stupid!

But entertaining.....

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

But entertaining.....

OK, I can't deny the guilty pleasure

[fierostetz]

Originally Posted by mrg666

So a minivan wins a drag race against an AT twin and you guys are so much concerned about it? That is a drag race, do you expect a minivan has any chance on the track against any twin? Track is where a twin as a sports car has advantage. You should all be driving a Dodge Challenger!

There is data all over the place from 6.2 seconds to 7.x seconds for both MT and AT. Nobody is arguing that AT launches as fast as an MT. What is the point of constantly pointing out 0-60 numbers? Around the corners though, MT and AT are both as fast as the driver can drive them.

This thread is stupid!

I thnk we all started intentionally adding stupid once it had already served it's purpose. I believe the OP already purchased the car several pages ago? So now it's hijack funtime