2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

They haven't stated anything about a hybrid system yet, so hopefully the BMW turbo motor stuff is actually coming to fruition, but who knows. It would be an immediate no go if there is anything having to do with hybrid in that car, and I would wind up in another corvette.

Why?

Originally Posted by mdm

Nah. Once there are $20-30k electric family sedans capable of going 300-400 miles on a single charge, and to be fully recharged overnight at home and partially recharged within minutes at a charging station, almost no one will want the the old Mr. Otto's invention, hybridized or not. This going to happen in 10, maybe 15 years.

I still agree with Mr. James May, that both hybrids and e-cars are obsolete once affordable hydrogen fuel cells come into play.

[DAEMANO]

Agreed with @HunterGreene

Pure electric and electric hybrid are only bridge technologies to Hydrogen fuel cell. Toyota (the world's hybrid leader, is already banking on it). I don't think we'll see a time where there are only electric and hybrids with no ICE cars on the road.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Why?

I'd rather have a non hybrid motor in a project car. Other performance offerings don't have it, so.... I'd always pick one of those.


I guess for a beater gas mileage car it'd be okay, but not a likely choice personally.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by CatScan

$28,999. Instead of real mechanical improvements, we get ugly-ass bling. Maybe TCoat can make a call and find out how old the new 86 design team is. My guess is they are all about 22.

There could be some truth to this. When Honda went from 3rd to 4th gen Integra they pretty much replaced the design team with 20 something fresh grads. The car went from sleek looking to a mouse / hamster form factor.

Usually the first iteration of a sports car model with most manufacturers come out looking distinctively different from the rest of the model line. The facelift is usually when they try to incorporate some sort of unified brand identity to bring it back inline with the other models.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I'd rather have a non hybrid motor in a project car. Other performance offerings don't have it, so.... I'd always pick one of those.


I guess for a beater gas mileage car it'd be okay, but not a likely choice personally.

Ferrari LaFerrari? Acura NSX (not proven yet)? Porche 918 (hypercar, but applies to the point)? I realize none of these are close in price to what the FT-1 production model is shooting for, but all of these cars were fairly well-received despite being hybrids.

Your vision of hybrids being like the Prius and Insight are outdated.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Ferrari LaFerrari? Acura NSX (not proven yet)? Porche 918 (hypercar, but applies to the point)? I realize none of these are close in price to what the FT-1 production model is shooting for, but all of these cars were fairly well-received despite being hybrids.

Your vision of hybrids being like the Prius and Insight are outdated.

No, it isn't. I understand and can appreciate those cars, but you're on a different level there.


You don't know what my priorities are. As someone who would like a project car to not only look nice and run well, I'd also like to be able to look at it and work on it without adding a whole ton of specialty tools or learning a whole new aspect of maintenance / repair.


If I were fine with taking any of my cars to the dealer for every bit of maintenance or I leased a car sure.... no problem. That isn't my situation. That's why I said personally.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I still agree with Mr. James May, that both hybrids and e-cars are obsolete once affordable hydrogen fuel cells come into play.

Maybe, but that would take more time. There is no developed infrastructure for production and distribution of hydrogen at the required volumes. Electric power is available in every house.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

No, it isn't. I understand and can appreciate those cars, but you're on a different level there.


You don't know what my priorities are. As someone who would like a project car to not only look nice and run well, I'd also like to be able to look at it and work on it without adding a whole ton of specialty tools or learning a whole new aspect of maintenance / repair.


If I were fine with taking any of my cars to the dealer for every bit of maintenance or I leased a car sure.... no problem. That isn't my situation. That's why I said personally.

When you put it that way, you make more sense. I see your point. Just saying, the only "extra" tools you would probably need are a multi-meter (if you dont have one already) and maybe some insulated gloves to prevent unintended shocks. The rest is fairly simple. Remember that electric motor technology has been around for almost 150 years now.

Originally Posted by mdm

Maybe, but that would take more time. There is no developed infrastructure for production and distribution of hydrogen at the required volumes. Electric power is available in every house.

Not entirely true. Current gas stations could be retrofit to distribute hydrogen/fuel cell fuel without a complete rebuild of infrastructure.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

As someone who would like a project car to not only look nice and run well, I'd also like to be able to look at it and work on it without adding a whole ton of specialty tools or learning a whole new aspect of maintenance / repair.

Funny, I was just talking to one of the few remaining carburetor rebuilders recently, and he had the exact same attitude about fuel injection.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Funny, I was just talking to one of the few remaining carburetor rebuilders recently, and he had the exact same attitude about fuel injection.

Ha, that is actually a great parallel!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Funny, I was just talking to one of the few remaining carburetor rebuilders recently, and he had the exact same attitude about fuel injection.

Back in the day we were all very convinced that fuel injection and duel overhead cams were a fad and that carbs and single cams would never go away. We were 50% wrong.

[Ashikabi]

Computers won over carbs, they will win over gas motors. Once batteries last longer and weigh less there will be no reason to have a gas engine in 99% of vehicles

[mdm]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

. Current gas stations could be retrofit to distribute hydrogen/fuel cell fuel without a complete rebuild of infrastructure.

You would have to replace the distributors and the tanks (or coat them). Also pipelines, tank trucks. Hydrogen causes a lot of problems, like corrosion, embrittlement, seepage of hydrogen through metal crystalline structure.

Not unsolvable, but difficult and costly.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by mdm

You would have to replace the distributors and the tanks (or coat them). Also pipelines, tank trucks. Hydrogen causes a lot of problems, like corrosion, embrittlement, seepage of hydrogen through metal crystalline structure.

Not unsolvable, but difficult and costly.

I think we'll skip all that. You can't really make gasoline in your garage, but you can pull hydrogen out of water using electricity. Honda is developing a hydrogen system that would fit in your garage and use solar power to extract and compress hydrogen to refuel your car. For those who can't have a plant at home, or for when you're away from your home plant, we'll see a more distributed production model where hydrogen plants replace corner gas stations to make and store the hydrogen on site. Eventually apartment buildings will have their own plants for their tenants, and your fuel bill will become part of your rent.

We'll have a few blow up, and that will make for some interesting news cycles. But I think that will just further the push toward smaller, local plants rather than transporting the stuff on the road where accidents are more likely to occur.