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Old 07-13-2013, 04:31 PM   #29
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Having lived in snowy climates my whole life I've used quite a few tires on several cars...

Best for snow and ice are the conti extreme contacts hands down. They wore quickly and were squishy in anything over 45F.

Better than the Xice 2 and the Hakka R.

Never tried any of the performance winters.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:01 PM   #30
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Some people apparently use 16” for winter tires, but on TireRack.com, when you search for rims (by vehicle), they only show you 17”+. They also explain here all the potential issues with wrong size:
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/colint...ims-fit-my-car
Just want to make sure that 16” is really OK.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #31
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Having lived in snowy climates my whole life I've used quite a few tires on several cars...

Best for snow and ice are the conti extreme contacts hands down. They wore quickly and were squishy in anything over 45F.

Better than the Xice 2 and the Hakka R.

Never tried any of the performance winters.
Agree, have two sets on my cars, my daughters each have a set. I sold my Audi with a set. Previously Hakkas were top but since Bridgestone bought most of Nokian their tires have lost their competitive edge. Bridgestone winters are mediocre.

I also recommend fitting stock size winters. Minus one sizing is no longer advantageous because the newest winter tires are so good on ice and snow that what you really want is the best bare road performance you can get from a winter tire: I'm probably going to fit 225/45x17 Conti winters and eventually upgrading the summers to the same size but Michelin Supersports.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:40 PM   #32
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With the "lead in your rear" solution you increase the polar moment and reduce traction for steering by transferring weight to the rear. Also, weight in the rear only helps traction for acceleration which is the least important asoect of safe winter driving. Braking is number one and steering is number two. Getting going is what novices think is most important, it isnt. Rethink that solution. Just fit good winter tires and drive accordingly.

The number one issue with this car in winter is cornering ability. For that you need to keep the weight off the rear axle. The Torsen diff will get you all the traction you can safely handle. What you need is to keep the back end from sliding around sideways.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #33
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I personally wouldn't pay very much to add weight for winter driving. I live at the end of a long steep hill so 80lbs of sand will probably end up there as much for the weight as having sand to throw under the tires if I get stuck.

I got some hankook ice bears for free with my sparco wheels so we'll see how they do.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:42 PM   #34
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I personally wouldn't pay very much to add weight for winter driving. I live at the end of a long steep hill so 80lbs of sand will probably end up there as much for the weight as having sand to throw under the tires if I get stuck.

I got some hankook ice bears for free with my sparco wheels so we'll see how they do.
Those ice bears get good reviews from others who have them.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #35
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With the "lead in your rear" solution you increase the polar moment and reduce traction for steering by transferring weight to the rear. Also, weight in the rear only helps traction for acceleration which is the least important asoect of safe winter driving. Braking is number one and steering is number two. Getting going is what novices think is most important, it isnt. Rethink that solution. Just fit good winter tires and drive accordingly.

The number one issue with this car in winter is cornering ability. For that you need to keep the weight off the rear axle. The Torsen diff will get you all the traction you can safely handle. What you need is to keep the back end from sliding around sideways.
A car that handles well in the winter is about balance. The twins are too light in the rear to have optimal winter handling. Will they get around without it, sure, but not as well as they do with it. I have driven the car both ways in a variety of conditions including in unplowed snow of 5-7" and slush of 3-4". The weight certainly does not change the car's moment of inertia noticeably. With 22 years of winter driving and many years of racing Rally-X on snow and ice, I am certainly not a "novice". Have you tested the car with a variety of weights placed in the trunk or are your comments speculation?

For those recommending Continentals. I have driven and raced on those. The General is an equally well performing tire. Save yourself $100 on a set of tires and they will also last many more miles too as they wear much better. If you don't want to take my word for it, read the reviews at TireRack and the overall rating of the tires from those who have used them.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:03 AM   #36
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As far as the BRZ goes it is speculation. Since the defect in the rear suspension is roll oversteer I expect the BRZ to be as benign in winter as others who have tried it report. For the roll oversteer to show up one needs enough grip to roll close to the chassis limits which isn't going to happen in winter.

As for using weight in the trunk I am not a fan although it does work under some circumstances. An understeering pig can be balanced a bit better with some weight in the trunk. I prefer putting the extra weight ahead of the rear wheels for better balance but putting it as far back as you can increases the leverage effect on the rear wheels. Putting the weight as far back as possible gets you more traction per pound but it also lifts weight off the front wheels which is bad for braking and increases the polar moment which is really bad for oversteer. The BRZ is the opposite of an understeering pig. I cannot imagine weighing down the trunk will help it handle winter conditions.

The priorities in winter are stopping, steering and getting going and in that order. If you ice race you already know that. Also, if you ice race you know that more weight is slower. As for me sometimes the morning commute feels like an ice race!

Just BTW, although WI residents get some winter so do we up here in Western Canada. You can take our winter driving advice to the bank.....

Oh, and those Generals ARE Continentals, Continental bought out General decades ago. I think Goodyear and Cooper are the only major US tire companies now.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:30 AM   #37
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As far as the BRZ goes it is speculation. Since the defect in the rear suspension is roll oversteer I expect the BRZ to be as benign in winter as others who have tried it report. For the roll oversteer to show up one needs enough grip to roll close to the chassis limits which isn't going to happen in winter.

As for using weight in the trunk I am not a fan although it does work under some circumstances. An understeering pig can be balanced a bit better with some weight in the trunk. I prefer putting the extra weight ahead of the rear wheels for better balance but putting it as far back as you can increases the leverage effect on the rear wheels. Putting the weight as far back as possible gets you more traction per pound but it also lifts weight off the front wheels which is bad for braking and increases the polar moment which is really bad for oversteer. The BRZ is the opposite of an understeering pig. I cannot imagine weighing down the trunk will help it handle winter conditions.

The priorities in winter are stopping, steering and getting going and in that order. If you ice race you already know that. Also, if you ice race you know that more weight is slower. As for me sometimes the morning commute feels like an ice race!

Just BTW, although WI residents get some winter so do we up here in Western Canada. You can take our winter driving advice to the bank.....

Oh, and those Generals ARE Continentals, Continental bought out General decades ago. I think Goodyear and Cooper are the only major US tire companies now.
Pickup trucks are under steering pigs? Do they not benefit from weight in the bed?

Keep imagining and I will continue to do what I have tested and know works with the car.

With regard to ice racing, more weight is not necessary slower. Properly placed wait can be seconds faster. Some of the fastest racers I know pour lead into their crash beams.

I realize that Continental bought General. Does that somehow make Continental a better tire and worth the extra $100?
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:14 PM   #38
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Yes, pick up trucks are understeering pigs which is why loading them up never gets them to oversteer. They're designed that way. They make lousy winter vehicles loaded or unloaded.

I dunno about pouring lead into your crash beams in the fall and melting it out each spring. I do know that weighting up your road car for winter is undesirable. People do it believing they improve traction for getting going. That's the last winter driving problem you need to solve. People also believe awd is safer in winter, when it is easy to show that it isn't. Judging by the popularity of minivans and SUVs it is easy to conclude that the majority of American drivers know very little about vehicle safety or safe driving.

Continental tires made in Germany are generally better quality than General tires made in the US. Also, Americans are generally undemanding of tire performance and so tires made for American drivers will generally not suit enthusiasts.

Anything else I can help you with?
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:24 PM   #39
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Yes, pick up trucks are understeering pigs which is why loading them up never gets them to oversteer. They're designed that way. They make lousy winter vehicles loaded or unloaded.

I dunno about pouring lead into your crash beams in the fall and melting it out each spring. I do know that weighting up your road car for winter is undesirable. People do it believing they improve traction for getting going. That's the last winter driving problem you need to solve. People also believe awd is safer in winter, when it is easy to show that it isn't. Judging by the popularity of minivans and SUVs it is easy to conclude that the majority of American drivers know very little about vehicle safety or safe driving.

Continental tires made in Germany are generally better quality than General tires made in the US. Also, Americans are generally undemanding of tire performance and so tires made for American drivers will generally not suit enthusiasts.

Anything else I can help you with?
Hopefully I can help you with the difference between oversteer (break traction in the rear first...typical of RWD) and understeer (break traction in the front first...typical of FWD). Pickup trucks (RWD) oversteer and adding weight helps reduce the oversteer. The same is true for the twins. They oversteer from the factory and this is magnified in slippery conditions. Adding weight in the rear increases traction and helps to reduce oversteer. The additional traction is not only good for acceleration. Another example would be lane changes on the freeway in slushy conditions. With the weight, the car is less prone to fish tail when making a lane change.

150lbs will not shift the amount of weight from the front of the twins significantly enough to cause issues with turning or braking. The springs are stout enough to prevent that. With excessive weight or soft springs, yes, this could be an issue.

I didn't melt the lead out of the crash beam. I just swapped crash beams to a factory one for the summer.

AWD is only less safe because it inspires driver over confidence.

Your generalizations of Americans makes me
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #40
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So is there a concensus that Blizzaks are a good solid winter tire then? From what I've read here and elsewhere that seems to be the case.

I'm in the Midwest and we have moderate winters (nothing like the great lakes region or Canada of course) I'm not super concerned with dry handling /grip so long as it's not any worse than the Primacy's. I'd say my top two priorities are the ability to deal with snow/ice and the lifespan of the tire.

Anyone have issues/conerns with the Blizzaks or am I right in thinking they are a pretty solid overall tire?
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:41 PM   #41
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So is there a concensus that Blizzaks are a good solid winter tire then? From what I've read here and elsewhere that seems to be the case.

I'm in the Midwest and we have moderate winters (nothing like the great lakes region or Canada of course) I'm not super concerned with dry handling /grip so long as it's not any worse than the Primacy's. I'd say my top two priorities are the ability to deal with snow/ice and the lifespan of the tire.

Anyone have issues/conerns with the Blizzaks or am I right in thinking they are a pretty solid overall tire?
The Bliizaks are good but overpriced and wear faster than the Continental or Generals.

I have owned all three and my picks in order would be:

1) Generals
2) Continentals
3) Blizzak
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:03 PM   #42
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In your opinion is the snow/ice capabilities of the other two comparable? which models in the generals / continentals?
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