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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 10-10-2012, 06:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoJDM View Post
I think MAF placement has everything to do with it and the tube they use in the intake pipe near the MAF for injen. You can see why the AIRAID chokes itself out in the high rpms because the AFRs dive into the 10s and under. That is straight robbing power.
That's what I said LOL. The tube allows unmetered air to pass the MAFS. This causes the ECU to add less fuel (because it thinks there is less air). Leaner mixture makes more power. With a proper tune, this "inner pipe" is useless.

Oh, and the cold air on the dyno helps haha.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:47 PM   #58
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Greddy vs Injen

What's up everybody Just got my 5pc Aero Five Axis body kit installed. I'm about to order a Borla cat back exhaust system but don't know which cold air intake to get?? I'm kinda leaning toward the Greddy or Injen but not sure which one is better?
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:17 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by 2forme View Post
That's what I said LOL. The tube allows unmetered air to pass the MAFS. This causes the ECU to add less fuel (because it thinks there is less air). Leaner mixture makes more power. With a proper tune, this "inner pipe" is useless.

Oh, and the cold air on the dyno helps haha.
Well not exactly. I think you're on the right track though. That tube doesn't allow unmetered air to pass through the pipe. MAF readings are calculated using pipe diameter and filament reading taken from the sensor itself. So any air that doesn't specifically pass over the sensor itself is purely a calculated value based on what I listed above. Rather I think this small tube is altering that calculated theoretical air flow value by changing the effects of the airflow.

I have to run a flow simulation to test my theory. But the short of it is I think that tube is altering the turbulent/laminar flow characteristics of the air past the sensor at the higher airflow rates in the upper rpms. And by doing so affects the MAF reading to help lean it out up top.

But yes, all of this is rather moot when you consider that this can be compensate for on the tune.

Just so we are clear. I am not disagreeing with your statements. I share the same thoughts on mostly all of it. I'm just sharing my opinion as to the effects of the small air tube.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:44 PM   #60
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Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but the ECU has learning algo which is used in the first 100kms after an ECU reset. I wonder if the AFRs will be corrected by the ECU after the learning has finished. The Airaid instructions say to reset the ECU (disconnect the battery during install).
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:00 PM   #61
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Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but the ECU has learning algo which is used in the first 100kms after an ECU reset. I wonder if the AFRs will be corrected by the ECU after the learning has finished. The Airaid instructions say to reset the ECU (disconnect the battery during install).
From my tests, my AFR's and power didn't vary more than about 1hp from a freshly reset ECU and an ECU that had been driven for over 500 miles.

Take it for what it's worth. But the end result didn't change much for me.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:33 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forme View Post
That's what I said LOL. The tube allows unmetered air to pass the MAFS. This causes the ECU to add less fuel (because it thinks there is less air). Leaner mixture makes more power. With a proper tune, this "inner pipe" is useless.

Oh, and the cold air on the dyno helps haha.
That's what correction factors are for ~ standards. It would be different if I had done this in winter time and shown "uncorrected" numbers as opposed to SAE or STD.

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But yes, all of this is rather moot when you consider that this can be compensate for on the tune.
For the most part, and generally speaking yes... BUT...

So with all the discussions about snorkels being on or off, I figured I'd post this :




In the case of the AiRaid intake, some had said that leaving the snorkel on would mean up to a 20% restriction. Would you like to guess which run was with a high CFM carpet fan blowing at the intake (in addition to the hood being open and another dyno fan blowing) and which was without?

I brought this up when @mechaghost posted his findings but some people were more keen to see better numbers then I think.

Regards


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Old 10-10-2012, 09:58 PM   #63
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That's what correction factors are for ~ standards. It would be different if I had done this in winter time and shown "uncorrected" numbers as opposed to SAE or STD.
Lol, I wasn't referring to ambient temp. I was referring to supplying cold air to an intake that isn't cold air. The AIRAID and Injen intakes both suck in hot air when the hood is closed and the car is warm.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:50 PM   #64
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Adding part of the snorkel to the Airaid

Would adding part of the snorkel help the Airaid?

This modification has the air entering from the colder side of the radiator.
I realize it may reduce the intake size.

I realize the air entrance isn't smooth or velocity stack shaped.
Does colder air make up for the slight reduction this little mod may offer?


Airaid made a mistake not extending the intake like the AFE, just my opinion.
I'm going to get some fiberglass and mold a scoop for this Airaid that extends into the "colder area"
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:57 PM   #65
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I don't have any numbers, ir data, but common sense would dictate the when the car is in motion the Airaid intake gets its air in front of the radiator and the motor, i.e. Everything that would be giving off any significant amount of heat.

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Originally Posted by tonystewart View Post
Would adding part of the snorkel help the Airaid?

This modification has the air entering from the colder side of the radiator.
I realize it may reduce the intake size.

I realize the air entrance isn't smooth or velocity stack shaped.
Does colder air make up for the slight reduction this little mod may offer?


Airaid made a mistake not extending the intake like the AFE, just my opinion.
I'm going to get some fiberglass and mold a scoop for this Airaid that extends into the "colder area"
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:00 AM   #66
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So.... When is a company going to come out and make an aftermarket snorkel that is larger and more efficient than the stocker? Almost seems like common sense, it would convert all the intakes into cold air intakes...
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:05 AM   #67
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I don't think it's that simple. Sure, colder air is always good, but cooler air won't help the fact that there is a bottle neck at the inlet constricting the incoming air.

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So.... When is a company going to come out and make an aftermarket snorkel that is larger and more efficient than the stocker? Almost seems like common sense, it would convert all the intakes into cold air intakes...
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:33 AM   #68
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Ok, I was discussing this with a friend at work. He said he wouldn't get an intake because it might void your warranty. I realize dealerships can technically use anything that isn't stock against you, but has anyone heard of someone getting denied warranty work because of an intake?
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:17 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonystewart View Post
Would adding part of the snorkel help the Airaid?

This modification has the air entering from the colder side of the radiator.
I realize it may reduce the intake size.

I realize the air entrance isn't smooth or velocity stack shaped.
Does colder air make up for the slight reduction this little mod may offer?


Airaid made a mistake not extending the intake like the AFE, just my opinion.
I'm going to get some fiberglass and mold a scoop for this Airaid that extends into the "colder area"
Tony, if you look at my roto mold shoot out thread, I address this exact scenario with dynos. I cut my snorkel just like this one.

If it's too early and you don't feel like reading, the cliff notes is I saw an immediate gain in HP when I removed the snorkel, from restriction alone. Wasn't a huge gain... maybe 2-3 whp.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:31 AM   #70
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Good morning
I did read it, thanks, and I do realize I'm reaching for straws, lol,
I was "Hoping" for some colder air, hahaha
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