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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 08-21-2019, 12:17 PM   #57
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As has been said by others, you are seeing first hand the downside of being underinsured. At least where I am, the incremental cost to get to 500k or 1m coverage is pretty small, maybe $10-20 per month more than state minimums.

At this point you need to figure out how you will be able to tackle the debt you will likely owe if the claim goes to judgment. Savings is out, so maybe a second job? Sell your car and buy a $3k beater and roll the excess proceeds into the judgment debt?

Either way, keep trying to contact your insurance. They may still be obligated to provide legal defense even if policy limits are already exhausted.


Once a judgement is made, the decision of whether to sell the car is out of the OP's control. They will go after all assets under his name which I assume the car is one of them. So that alone may be used to pay off the debt owing.
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:45 PM   #58
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Once a judgement is made, the decision of whether to sell the car is out of the OP's control. They will go after all assets under his name which I assume the car is one of them. So that alone may be used to pay off the debt owing.
Primary vehicles, primary residences, work tools, necessities of life, etc., are often exempt from seizure for civil judgments. Varies by state, of course.

But honestly, the credit and public record penalty for a judgment is something to be avoided. I’d want to square up well prior to court action being filed. $5k lump sum and a release affirming that the lump sum settles all claims by the ins co and/or other driver would be a good goal to pursue.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:00 AM   #59
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While I may complain about the cost of insurance here in NY we have high minimum coverages, no fault and uninsured motorist coverage on every policy. When things go wrong it's nice to know that you're mostly covered depending on how high a limit you've purchased. At worst you have to pay the deductible and that varies depending on how much you want to spend.
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:34 PM   #60
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Just because no-fault makes everything easier, reduces suing, and costs everybody less doesn't mean Americans will give up their ideals.
Most states have gotten rid of no fault insurance because it was a nightmare that made everything more difficult, increased suing and cost everybody more. No fault will always fail because it ignores the principles of economics.

Florida is still a no fault state for personal injury, and it illustrates the problems perfectly. We have some of the highest insurance premiums in the country and a proliferation of personal injury lawsuits because of the no fault personal injury scam.

You have to carry a minimum amount of coverage for you and the people in your own vehicle.

In an at fault state, causing an accident that results in a claim causes your rates to go up in order to apply the insurer's cost where it belongs, with the riskier driver.

But it's not fair to raise your rates when it was someone else's fault, so state law says the insurance company can't hike your rates for a no fault claim.

What happens instead is that since the insurance company can't hike your rates and can't hike the other guy's rates if he's with another insurer, they just raise everybody's rates across the entire state to remain profitable.

Since drivers in general know their own rates won't go up because of an accident but their liability is still covered to some extent, there is less apparent incentive to drive carefully to avoid financial ruin. They have less skin in the game. People drive like maniacs down here. Why not? If they hurt someone, it's no fault baby!

Accident rates statewide go up as a result. That causes more claims. That causes rates to rise even more.

Since the rates are higher, people reduce their coverage to the minimums to actually be able to afford their insurance. For my four cars, carrying the coverage level and deductibles I had in Texas was going to cost me more than $4000 per year year, as opposed to around $1600 per year there.

When drivers here have a no fault accident after reducing their coverage to an affordable level, the insurance isn't sufficient to cover their own or their passengers' injuries. That's the point where the lawyers get involved.

First, passengers in the car that didn't cause the accident sue that driver and his insurer, because that's the insurer from whom they have to recover first.

When that tap runs dry, the passengers sue the other driver and his insurance, even though that insurer isn't actually liable for those claims. They're not supposed to, but they do, because most insurers will squeeze out some settlement money to stay out of court.

Then the driver that wasn't at fault sues the other driver's insurance and the other driver himself. That's a legitimate suit, since his own coverage ran out but there are still medical bills to be paid.

Meanwhile the driver who caused the accident lawyers up, and he sues the driver who didn't cause the accident, trying to claim comparative negligence on the other guy's part contributed to the accident. In other words, I caused the accident, but it wouldn't have happened if you weren't there for me to hit, so it's your fault. This actually works in many cases, because the insurers will settle rather than go to court and risk the money on a confused jury or judge.

And all these lawsuits and claims cost the insurance companies even more money, which they pass on to all their customers all across the state, resulting in some of the highest, most ridiculous rates in the country.

Not too long ago there was an idiotic story all over the news that illustrated why no fault is bullshit. A bunch of 14 to 16 year old teenagers stole a couple of cars and took them out on Highway 19, where they played tag with a cop. This is a "thing" among young gang bangers. What they do is one takes off at a high rate of speed where they know there's a cop, with the other one hanging back. When the cop gives chase, the other car races up from behind and tries to get the cop to chase him instead. Then the two cars take turns playing tag to make an idiot of the cop. When it gets too hot, they crash the car in a neighborhood and bail out on foot. If they get caught, it's no big deal because they're juveniles.

But this time one of these kids playing chicken ran a red light and smashed a guy who did absolutely nothing wrong.

The car thief had three other kids in the car with him, all of whom ended up in the hospital. Since that kid didn't even have a driver's license, much less personal injury insurance, those kids lawyered up and sued not only the insurer of the stolen car, but also the victim they hit. Everybody involved got sued except the piece of shit who caused the accident in the first place.

The victim's insurance company paid off the kids. I think they got $30K each if I remember correctly.

And now I'm paying for those fuckers with my higher rates.

Every year or two one house of the Florida legislature passes a bill to get rid of no fault. Every time the goddamned trial lawyers lobby the shit out of the other house or the governor to kill it. The insurers and consumers want it gone, but no fault supports an entire industry of ambulance chasers here in Florida who donate a lot of money to political campaigns. They pull out all the stops to keep it.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:00 PM   #61
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Thanks.. I literally have $100 in my bank account. I can't afford to pay this.

Will I go to jail if I go to court and have to pay this and I can't pay?

I don't even have any assets except my car
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Sorry OP, you need to figure this out yourself.

If you can lose $9000 at a casino you can afford to pay the other person back, especially since you are at fault. The more people try to run from valid insurance claims, the more it impacts the rest of us via rate increases down the road.

If you only have $100 in your bank account, where did the $9000 come from? A loan shark? If it's not your money to lose then you have larger issues that none of us can offer meaningful advice on.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:03 PM   #62
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Compulsory third party for around $20 million, costs me around $500 a year, covers people and property

Plus

Comprehensive insurance, cover my vehilce and their vehicle if I'm at fault in an accident, $1000 a year

Plus rego, $500

Total cost to keep car on the road legaly with no risk, around $2k a year

Oh, and by no risk, you need to be sober and not on drugs, if you are found to be over the legal alchol limit, or on drugs, all claims will be denied

That's not just illegal drugs, that also covers misuse of prescription drugs

PPPPP

All this info is really helpful if OP was living in Australia like you.

But as mentioned already with others, the US is not like other places. Each state has their own requirement for insurance minimums, so having a "I have this type of insurance" conversation when you don't live in the same area as the person asking the question is pointless.

Plus, $2000 AUD a year? should we bring in exchange rates and make this a bigger mess of a conversation?
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:25 PM   #63
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Most states have gotten rid of no fault insurance because it was a nightmare that made everything more difficult, increased suing and cost everybody more. No fault will always fail because it ignores the principles of economics.

Florida is still a no fault state for personal injury, and it illustrates the problems perfectly. We have some of the highest insurance premiums in the country and a proliferation of personal injury lawsuits because of the no fault personal injury scam.

You have to carry a minimum amount of coverage for you and the people in your own vehicle.

In an at fault state, causing an accident that results in a claim causes your rates to go up in order to apply the insurer's cost where it belongs, with the riskier driver.

Although our insurance is called "no fault" it doesn't work at all as you described. There is still "fault" assigned and the at "fault" drivers rates will go up. The other driver's will not. So really ours is an at fault no fault system. It has worked very, very well here for a long time.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:30 PM   #64
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Sorry OP, you need to figure this out yourself.

If you can lose $9000 at a casino you can afford to pay the other person back, especially since you are at fault. The more people try to run from valid insurance claims, the more it impacts the rest of us via rate increases down the road.

If you only have $100 in your bank account, where did the $9000 come from? A loan shark? If it's not your money to lose then you have larger issues that none of us can offer meaningful advice on.

This ^

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All this info is really helpful if OP was living in Australia like you.

But as mentioned already with others, the US is not like other places. Each state has their own requirement for insurance minimums, so having a "I have this type of insurance" conversation when you don't live in the same area as the person asking the question is pointless.

Plus, $2000 AUD a year? should we bring in exchange rates and make this a bigger mess of a conversation?
If you don't live in EXACTLY the same area, have EXACTLY the same driving record, Are EXACTLY the same age and sex, have EXACTLY the same credit rating, etc. In fact unless you are exactly the same person comparing rates is meaningless at best and totally deceiving at worst.
I have had my rates drop by $200 a year just by moving a block away into a "different" zone.
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:11 PM   #65
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All this info is really helpful if OP was living in Australia like you.

But as mentioned already with others, the US is not like other places. Each state has their own requirement for insurance minimums, so having a "I have this type of insurance" conversation when you don't live in the same area as the person asking the question is pointless.

Plus, $2000 AUD a year? should we bring in exchange rates and make this a bigger mess of a conversation?
Wow, tough crowd

My post was about the amount of third party, as states, I'm covered for $20 million.

I agree the rest was fluff though

$2000 AUD = $1351.40 at this point in time, simples.

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Old 08-22-2019, 05:30 PM   #66
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Florida
You could have stopped right there.

You essentially said that we need tort reform. I agree.

You also said Flordians are fucking horrible. I agree.

With tort reform, all insurance rates would drop. With a civil society, all insurance rates would drop.
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:39 PM   #67
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You essentially said that we need tort reform.
No I didn't, because that term is generally meaningless. What torts would you reform to make the system fair?
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:07 PM   #68
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No I didn't, because that term is generally meaningless. What torts would you reform to make the system fair?
Liability law needs an enema. IANAL. I just see a lot of idiotic injustices.
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:29 PM   #69
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Although our insurance is called "no fault" it doesn't work at all as you described. There is still "fault" assigned and the at "fault" drivers rates will go up. The other driver's will not. So really ours is an at fault no fault system. It has worked very, very well here for a long time.
How does that work? All I know is I border a no fault state and to insure my wife's vehicle in it cost the same per month as all three of our cars across the border... actually slightly more. We settled in the state with the better benefits, and insurance costs was one large factor in that.
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:10 PM   #70
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Jesus OP. Sorry to hear about your financial situation, but you really suck at financial decisions.
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