FA20T swap from the new subaru forester direct bolt in?

[mad_sb]

So, if the fa20t is in production now, there should be a service manual floating around some were that would answer many of these questions yes....

[regal]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

FTFY... You throw a lot of assumptions and conjecture as facts out there. At least throw a disclaimer that its your opinion, not set in stone facts and reality.

(Unless you can show me a video where Subaru VP or Engineering Manager or such stated this). Also, how do you know AVO is the biggest turbo sponsor? Again need facts to prove it.

You posts are misleading sometimes. The only reason AVO is commenting here is because they already looked into it.... And that is a fact

I am right 80% of the time and wrong the other 80%. Of course opinion and conjecture is what everyone posts, everyone on here its what sparks discussion and a good thing.

Avo is the largest turbo kit supplier for the Twins they even advertise that fact, they would be my first choice as if a wanted to turbo charge a 12.5:1 NA Subaru engine, their oiling system for the turbo sets the standard.

If Avo knows more about this swap please divulge the findings ), because speculation and what not is not going away, this is Subaru's leading engine going forward, its a big deal for them.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by regal

Of course opinion and conjecture is what everyone posts, everyone on here its what sparks discussion and a good thing.

The problem here is not that you post opinion or conjecture, is that you write it like they were facts. Lots of people post their opinion and there are others who post facts.

Generally, people make it clear whether its opinion or fact. I'm just inviting you to make it clear with a simple IMHO, instead of making it seem written in stone facts

[regal]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

The problem here is not that you post opinion or conjecture, is that you write it like they were facts. Lots of people post their opinion and there are others who post facts.

Generally, people make it clear whether its opinion or fact. I'm just inviting you to make it clear with a simple IMHO, instead of making it seem written in stone facts

Will do, I flunked English first to admit it.

And the service manual is available from the usual torrent sites, I've been admiring the engine for a while now. Its quite a piece of engineering. A little 2L powering a heavy heavy Forester is an impressive accomplishment for Subaru.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by regal

Will do, I flunked English first to admit it.

And the service manual is available from the usual torrent sites, I've been admiring the engine for a while now. Its quite a piece of engineering. A little 2L powering a heavy heavy Forester is an impressive accomplishment for Subaru.

90% of us flunked it

[sierra]

Originally Posted by regal

Will do, I flunked English first to admit it.

And the service manual is available from the usual torrent sites, I've been admiring the engine for a while now. Its quite a piece of engineering. A little 2L powering a heavy heavy Forester is an impressive accomplishment for Subaru.

The heavy heavy Forester that only weighs 64kg more than a WRX which also had a 2L turbo until relatively recently and that little 2L managed to drag it along without the advantage of DI.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by regal

Will do, I flunked English first to admit it.

And the service manual is available from the usual torrent sites, I've been admiring the engine for a while now. Its quite a piece of engineering. A little 2L powering a heavy heavy Forester is an impressive accomplishment for Subaru.

I think the ej207 is a far more impressive motor for performance than the current FA20DIT. I'm not sure why you are so impressed by the current FA20DIT unless you really like the MPG and emissions ratings. Engine power starts falling off a cliff at 5700rpm. Peak torque from 1800-4800rpm. I bet the little honeywell turbo they use to achieve this is pretty well optimized and has little headroom left. It looks like the stock boost on these turbos is around 17-18 psi and it's rated from the manufacturer at around 300hp.

Until they massage this motor for the wrx/sti, it looks like a waste of time to me. At minimum, it looks like you'll need a set of proper cams. People around here complain that the FA20 power drops off a cliff at 7000rpm. The DIT verison does the same thing at 4800rpm. It's not like you'll be able to bolt on a downpipe and flash to stage 2 and get great results with the new motor. There is no real downpipe anymore and it looks like the turbo has very little headroom.





Can we stop talking about putting this truck motor in our cars for now?

[wparsons]

I don't know about anyone else, but until pure DI systems find a proven way to prevent valve fouling, I'll stick with a mix of port and direct injection.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by industrial

Can we stop talking about putting this truck motor in our cars for now?

QFFT

(quoted for effing truth!)

[Scoobyrs25]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I haven't looked that closely, but doesn't the starter bolt to the transmission bellhousing and not the engine?

It does, but the block shape mandates how it bolts up. The nose cone of the starter protrudes into the block itself. Guys, pop your hood and look. This motor will never bolt up to your trans. Besides, the turbo kits really work amazingly.

I owned a Subaru shop for ten years. This new motor is the THE BEST motor Subaru has ever made. I have a GTX28 on my car and it spools way faster then the same turbo even on the 2.5 STi engines. The direct injection is fantastic. I'm at 300 whp on only 8 lbs of boost with no end in sight for injectors running out of headroom.

No swap needed, just bolt on some boost.

[regal]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I don't know about anyone else, but until pure DI systems find a proven way to prevent valve fouling, I'll stick with a mix of port and direct injection.

Yea I bought into the proven D4-S, multi-port +DI track record, but the torque dip is frustrating and the dang tip-in knock I'm not so sure its worth it.

Sure the Foresters FA20T is tuned a little truck-like, but our FA20 is no F20C, this FA20T has a lot of potential.

First everyone was saying the cams and head are the same, now you're saying I was right but they are too different?

This is the direction that the entire automotive industry is heading IT. Fast spooling small turbo, flat torque curve, not super high revving.

Isn't it slated to show up in the WRX tuned a lot less truck like?

If it makes it into the BRZ as the base engine will we still be dismissing it?

We can put off discussing this factory ~300hp FA20 variant as long as you all wish but it isn't going away.

IMHO people want to ignore Subaru's accomplishment here because it not only slaps in the face of Tada's mandate against Subaru's wishes to turbo the BRZ but it also hurts a little for those investing in an aftermarket turbo FA20 build so early in this platform's life cycle.

The reason many of us bought the FRS was low entry rwd sports car platform with future upgrade paths. When you bought a 240sx in 1990 would you ever have guessed the unlimited potential of that platform?

Its much too early to be closed minded with these cars.

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by regal

And I agree this will be the defacto turbo upgrade in a few years, notice the quick defensiveness from the largest FA20 aftermarket turbo sponsor on here.

I don't think you understand - whether or not if you attempted to use the turbo long block, it wouldn't affect us either way. The turbo motor was designed to fit in a car whose engine sits about 4" higher in a different location. The turbocharger assembly fitted to said motor sits far lower in relation to the engine, and further forward. It is also rotated so that the exhaust housing exits to the right side (if you were facing towards the front of the car).

So to get the OEM turbocharger assembly to fit, you would need to both cut into your lower front frame, and also completely remove the undertray, as the turbo would be sitting a few inches lower than it. Then you would need to work out how to re-route the exhaust completely from the front of the car back.

Putting the turbo long block into the car only really accomplishes *1* thing - lower compression pistons. For the 5k you would spend on the long block to do so, you could easily purchase aftermarket forged pistons to accomplish the same thing.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by regal

Yea I bought into the proven D4-S, multi-port +DI track record, but the torque dip is frustrating and the dang tip-in knock I'm not so sure its worth it.

Sure the Foresters FA20T is tuned a little truck-like, but our FA20 is no F20C, this FA20T has a lot of potential.

First everyone was saying the cams and head are the same, now you're saying I was right but they are too different?

This is the direction that the entire automotive industry is heading IT. Fast spooling small turbo, flat torque curve, not super high revving.

Isn't it slated to show up in the WRX tuned a lot less truck like?

If it makes it into the BRZ as the base engine will we still be dismissing it?

We can put off discussing this factory ~300hp FA20 variant as long as you all wish but it isn't going away.

IMHO people want to ignore Subaru's accomplishment here because it not only slaps in the face of Tada's mandate against Subaru's wishes to turbo the BRZ but it also hurts a little for those investing in an aftermarket turbo FA20 build so early in this platform's life cycle.

The reason many of us bought the FRS was low entry rwd sports car platform with future upgrade paths. When you bought a 240sx in 1990 would you ever have guessed the unlimited potential of that platform?

Its much too early to be closed minded with these cars.

What accomplishment are you talking about? The dyno I posted was from the JDM legacy DIT. It makes more power and revs higher than the USDM forester version. That's probably what we may see in the wrx which won't be bad. You are right in this is the direction the auto industry is headed. Low revving, low displacement motors with tiny turbos. It's very efficient and great for emissions. Not what I want in a sports car at all. God why?

Remember we are talking about swapping in this motor on purpose with additional funds. I don't see a good reason why even if it was a straight bolt in. If it came stock with this motor that's a different discussion.

[regal]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

I don't think you understand - whether or not if you attempted to use the turbo long block, it wouldn't affect us either way. The turbo motor was designed to fit in a car whose engine sits about 4" higher in a different location. The turbocharger assembly fitted to said motor sits far lower in relation to the engine, and further forward. It is also rotated so that the exhaust housing exits to the right side (if you were facing towards the front of the car).

So to get the OEM turbocharger assembly to fit, you would need to both cut into your lower front frame, and also completely remove the undertray, as the turbo would be sitting a few inches lower than it. Then you would need to work out how to re-route the exhaust completely from the front of the car back.

Putting the turbo long block into the car only really accomplishes *1* thing - lower compression pistons. For the 5k you would spend on the long block to do so, you could easily purchase aftermarket forged pistons to accomplish the same thing.

Originally Posted by industrial

What accomplishment are you talking about? The dyno I posted was from the JDM legacy DIT. It makes more power and revs higher than the USDM forester version. That's probably what we may see in the wrx which won't be bad. You are right in this is the direction the auto industry is headed. Low revving, low displacement motors with tiny turbos. It's very efficient and great for emissions. Not what I want in a sports car at all. God why?

Remember we are talking about swapping in this motor on purpose with additional funds. I don't see a good reason why even if it was a straight bolt in. If it came stock with this motor that's a different discussion.

I agree its too early, but Subaru is going to be using this engine extensively in many forms.

Avo you do get more than lower comp pistons. With a DI engine the piston top and head chamber are intricately designed to match, much better than slapping in aftermarket pistons (IMHO). The whole DI system and heads are designed for a turbo. No one is talking about using the FA20T turbo piping or manifold. Its the long block, ecu, and DI that in a years out one could pull from a JY and be a good base for a build. That's all.