Inside Line - BRZ Full Test Review

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by catharsis

Having a long second gear matters a lot in autocross, you'll often hit 60 on the straights but don't go much faster than that. It means autocrosses will lose time either bouncing off the rev limiter or having to shift excessively.

I see, but is 59 vs. 60 that big of problem? Since the gear is shorter you do get to 59 faster afterall.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by catharsis

It would take forced induction to do that. Besides I think Subaru wanted to turbo this car all along. It was Toyota's idea to make it slow.

Pretty much. And it's a shame too. If this were Turbo/SC, there'd be no questions in my mind to purchase one. Full price would be paid in full at a dealer for delivery. They dropped the ball here, and I forget if it were a Toyota or Subaru rep that was saying they're really happy that people said it handles incredibly well, but at the same time they're really upset how many said it needs more power. TRD will probably have a SC kit for it most likely. Just it'll be big $$$$ as they command a premium for anything with their name on it, but it would be justified based on quality.

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

If you enter a single-make racing series with the BRZ/FRS - assuming one comes along - then everyone will be in the same boat regardless of what engine fiddling is done.
If it's an open series, than it might not be a winning car.

I'd say 99% of all the SCCA and close track/club days around here are open. So yes, it's going to be hurting. Also I have to see where the revs would sit at certain speeds and how much power is available to push out of turns. Also I'm curious on the shifter. Toyota nor Subaru made a decent shifter setup/feel in over a decade.

Originally Posted by Subaruwrxfan

My problem with the GT-R is everybody I talked to said they were no fun, the insane speed and abilities of the car get old fast because the car does all the work for you. There's no driver involvement. Many people that I talked to sold theirs within a year of owning it.

The Mustangs would be absolute animals, which I can enjoy almost as much as carving up a backroad. Where I live though, there are tons of windy roads that I drive every day, so having a car that is referred to as "pure handling delight" sounds, well...delightful. I've consider Elises many times for this same reason, but I want something that has a bit more comfort and is much more safe if I'm gonna be driving it every day. If I lived in a place with nothing but flat, straight roads, then I would most likely be buying a Mustang instead.

Plus, with the money I'm saving by not buying a more expensive car, I can save more for the classics I wanna buy, a 1968 Mustang and a late-40s convertible, so it all works out.

I can't knock you for the Classic (1970 Boss/Mach 1 for me as far as classic Mustangs go) idea. I don't get the "machine does the work" thing though with people. The car is changing direction so fast and grips when commanded, along with ridiculous power, that's fun in it's own right. The last real pure sports car I drove was an Exige, and that was fun too. Each fun in their own rights. I live in NEPA and you can say my Evo is the last of the true pure AWDs as it's an VIII w/o all the gadgets found on the 9/10, and though it's not a sports car, it's the most fun car I've ever owned, especially on these mountain roads in the snow.

I'm still considering the 2013 Boss/GT500, I haven't decided. Or, I may just keep my Evo, and get a BRZ for a daily beater, and get a GT500 just for the shenanagins and sound. Going to have to test drive the BRZ to see if it's livable for everyday use, as my Evo is taking it's toll on me ride wise and gas wise.

[86fanatic]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

I don't know man, I don't know how you can throw this car in purchasing thoughts against a GT-R, GT500, or even a Boss. They're just on a completely different level, totally outclass this car.

It might surprised you but some people on this forum can easily afford a GT500 or GTR but don't see the point in owning those cars. A 2013 GT500 will hit 60MPH in 1st gear. A GTR goes 3 seconds to 60, only when no one is in front of you and hopefully no one is beside you either. If you are pushing the car that hard on public streets you are being a danger to the people around you, plain and simple.

Those cars are just ridiculously over powered for real world driving. Not to mention they both weigh 1000 pounds more. It doesn't matter how much fancy drive train components you put on those cars, it is very hard to have a connected feeling driving a car which weighs almost 4000 pounds.

Besides that, how do you feel driving you 4000 pound boat 60 MPH or less in rush hour driving, knowing you are quickly wearing out your tires, brakes, and everything else at an alarming rate. It's a little bit silly isn't it being stuck in a machine that is engineered to go 200 MPH chugging along with every other "0-60 in 8 second car". It's simply a waste of the engineering that went into the car to use them as daily drivers.

Many of us interested in the 86 are coming from much faster cars. For me the whole "press the gas, go really fast" concept is both boring and at a point with modern cars where things are just over the top and actually a detraction from the fun factor of driving on public roads. I don't go to the track, I don't care about being competitive on the drag strip or auto cross.

I just want a car that is fun to drive, makes me feel connected, and is not a ridiculously over engineered exercise in excess designed solely to have internet bragging rights about 0-60 times, Nurburgring lap times, 1/4 mile times, and the rest. I really don't care about any of those things, it has nothing to do with my daily commute and enjoyment of my car.

[Lost]

They didn't make a mistake in their choice of powerplant. They knew full-well what the 0-60 time would be when they debuted it. "It needs 50 more hp"... Well it'd be nice if an LFA were a few hundred grand cheaper or a if Mustang lost 1000 pounds or if a gasoline grew on trees.

This is the package they came up with while taking in to consideration ALL the factors that go in to car production. If you don't like it, don't buy one...

[Subaruwrxfan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

I can't knock you for the Classic (1970 Boss/Mach 1 for me as far as classic Mustangs go) idea. I don't get the "machine does the work" thing though with people. The car is changing direction so fast and grips when commanded, along with ridiculous power, that's fun in it's own right. The last real pure sports car I drove was an Exige, and that was fun too. Each fun in their own rights. I live in NEPA and you can say my Evo is the last of the true pure AWDs as it's an VIII w/o all the gadgets found on the 9/10, and though it's not a sports car, it's the most fun car I've ever owned, especially on these mountain roads in the snow.

I'm still considering the 2013 Boss/GT500, I haven't decided. Or, I may just keep my Evo, and get a BRZ for a daily beater, and get a GT500 just for the shenanagins and sound. Going to have to test drive the BRZ to see if it's livable for everyday use, as my Evo is taking it's toll on me ride wise and gas wise.

I just enjoy having more involvement. A few of my friends have cars with real paddle shift F1 transmissions, they're great, but personally I always wanna have at least one manual transmission car in my garage. Although it may be slower, it makes it more fun for me. I feel similarly about all the "electronic nannies". I agree, it would definitely be fun to scream around at speeds that defy physics in the GT-R, that's why I seriously considered one for so long. I just don't think I'd get to explore the limits of the GT-R nearly as much as I would in the BRZ.

If I were in your shoes, I would definitely think that the BRZ will be a better daily driver than the evo, but I would keep your evo too as a winter beater or for the occasions when you may need to transport more than 1 other person. That's why I'm keeping my Legacy. The Mustang (classic or GT500) would just be for the weekend drives and shenanigans.

[Subaruwrxfan]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

It might surprised you but some people on this forum can easily afford a GT500 or GTR but don't see the point in owning those cars. A 2013 GT500 will hit 60MPH in 1st gear. A GTR goes 3 seconds to 60, only when no one is in front of you and hopefully no one is beside you either. If you are pushing the car that hard on public streets you are being a danger to the people around you, plain and simple.

Those cars are just ridiculously over powered for real world driving. Not to mention they both weigh 1000 pounds more. It doesn't matter how much fancy drive train components you put on those cars, it is very hard to have a connected feeling driving a car which weighs almost 4000 pounds.

Besides that, how do you feel driving you 4000 pound boat 60 MPH or less in rush hour driving, knowing you are quickly wearing out your tires, brakes, and everything else at an alarming rate. It's a little bit silly isn't it being stuck in a machine that is engineered to go 200 MPH chugging along with every other "0-60 in 8 second car". It's simply a waste of the engineering that went into the car to use them as daily drivers.

Many of us interested in the 86 are coming from much faster cars. For me the whole "press the gas, go really fast" concept is both boring and at a point with modern cars where things are just over the top and actually a detraction from the fun factor of driving on public roads. I don't go to the track, I don't care about being competitive on the drag strip or auto cross.

I just want a car that is fun to drive, makes me feel connected, and is not a ridiculously over engineered exercise in excess designed solely to have internet bragging rights about 0-60 times, Nurburgring lap times, 1/4 mile times, and the rest. I really don't care about any of those things, it has nothing to do with my daily commute and enjoyment of my car.

Couldn't agree more. For a car I'm driving every day, the BRZ will be the perfect fun little runaround car.

[Draco-REX]

I was going to buy a Corvette ZR1, but then I found out it didn't have third row seating. I mean, come on. For the price of a ZR1 I could get an Escalade that seats 7 with every option and still have some left over to mod it. The ZR1 is SO overpriced for what it is! Chevrolet really screwed up with the price on that.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

I was going to buy a Corvette ZR1, but then I found out it didn't have third row seating. I mean, come on. For the price of a ZR1 I could get an Escalade that seats 7 with every option and still have some left over to mod it. The ZR1 is SO overpriced for what it is! Chevrolet really screwed up with the price on that.

It doesnt even have second row seating!!!!
UNACCEPTABLE!

And why get a ZL1 corvette when you can just get a vanilla C6 and just aftermarket the hell out of it?

Or heck just get a GTR. at least that has 4 seats.

Or maybe even a used Lamborghini Gallardo or Ferrari 360 Modena.

[YaX]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

It might surprised you but some people on this forum can easily afford a GT500 or GTR but don't see the point in owning those cars. A 2013 GT500 will hit 60MPH in 1st gear. A GTR goes 3 seconds to 60, only when no one is in front of you and hopefully no one is beside you either. If you are pushing the car that hard on public streets you are being a danger to the people around you, plain and simple.

Those cars are just ridiculously over powered for real world driving. Not to mention they both weigh 1000 pounds more. It doesn't matter how much fancy drive train components you put on those cars, it is very hard to have a connected feeling driving a car which weighs almost 4000 pounds.

Besides that, how do you feel driving you 4000 pound boat 60 MPH or less in rush hour driving, knowing you are quickly wearing out your tires, brakes, and everything else at an alarming rate. It's a little bit silly isn't it being stuck in a machine that is engineered to go 200 MPH chugging along with every other "0-60 in 8 second car". It's simply a waste of the engineering that went into the car to use them as daily drivers.

Many of us interested in the 86 are coming from much faster cars. For me the whole "press the gas, go really fast" concept is both boring and at a point with modern cars where things are just over the top and actually a detraction from the fun factor of driving on public roads. I don't go to the track, I don't care about being competitive on the drag strip or auto cross.

I just want a car that is fun to drive, makes me feel connected, and is not a ridiculously over engineered exercise in excess designed solely to have internet bragging rights about 0-60 times, Nurburgring lap times, 1/4 mile times, and the rest. I really don't care about any of those things, it has nothing to do with my daily commute and enjoyment of my car.

Um. :happy0180:

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by catharsis

Having a long second gear matters a lot in autocross, you'll often hit 60 on the straights but don't go much faster than that. It means autocrosses will lose time either bouncing off the rev limiter or having to shift excessively.

I keep seeing more and more reasons to acquire a supply of 3.727 gears.

Especially if a bunch of people go turbo/supercharger. Hmm.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I keep seeing more and more reasons to acquire a supply of 3.727 gears.

Especially if a bunch of people go turbo/supercharger. Hmm.

But for people who want a high rev engine instead of a supercharger, the 4.1 is pretty good...just that pesky 6th gear needs to be changed somehow. Wonder how much it costs to have a custom gearset machined. I think someone on ecomodder tried taking the 2nd gear and reversing the gears to get a 0.5something ratio, but the gears broke for some reason after 15k miles.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

But for people who want a high rev engine instead of a supercharger, the 4.1 is pretty good...just that pesky 6th gear needs to be changed somehow. Wonder how much it costs to have a custom gearset machined. I think someone on ecomodder tried taking the 2nd gear and reversing the gears to get a 0.5something ratio, but the gears broke for some reason after 15k miles.

I'll wait for 4.4x gears.

[dsgerbc]

I don't buy the autox argument. If you're in it for the hope/dream of winning the nationals, you'll need to have "the car to have" in a class. It remains to be seen where this one falls, but more likely than not it won't be "the car to have" no matter where the 2nd gear tops out.

And if you're doing autox just for fun, then where 2nd gear end does not matter. If anything, I enjoy a perfectly executed heal/toe downshift just as much as hitting the apexes.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

I don't buy the autox argument. If you're in it for the hope/dream of winning the nationals, you'll need to have "the car to have" in a class. It remains to be seen where this one falls, but more likely than not it won't be "the car to have" no matter where the 2nd gear tops out.

And if you're doing autox just for fun, then where 2nd gear end does not matter. If anything, I enjoy a perfectly executed heal/toe downshift just as much as hitting the apexes.

Even if this car does not turn out to be the fastest in its class in autox, it might be the funnest in its class for the price and the best to learn in for those starting out. This was one essential design goal intended by its engineers, probably more feverishly developed than any other car prior. This area has to be its meat and potatoes.