Why do the Gazoo racing cars use 16s?

[leevanf]

A quick search on "gazoo 86 tws 16" and youll notice the different early gazoo racing 86es all run 16s. (not referring to the current GRMN)

Anybody know what the rationale for running this wheel size and narrow tires for?
The toyota ran TWS, 16x7, and the BRZ ran 16x6.5 BBS with "dunlop rubber". they went with taller 205/55 rather than 225/50s. Engines are NA and from what i see, they just have cages, MU brake pads, and theyre even on stock height!

Is this enough to conclude that if you are doing a "stock" build, sort off, 16s are really the pinnacle of performance for stock/factory class?

[new2subaru]

205/55 are only 1mm taller than 225/50.

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?whe...cl=50mm&sr=0mm

I'm looking forward to this discussion.

[SuperTom]

well with a underpowered car you need every advantage so why not use some 10lb wheels.

[churchx]

leevanf: it's less performance regulated, more class tire limit regulation. Outside those specific races with specific technical requirements, for normal twin, be it DD car or generic track day toy, 17 hits more of a sweat spot, with much wider good performance tire selection, clearing lot of BBKs, adding a bit more steering sharpness feel, while not getting much of drawbacks of going even bigger, as tire cost increase, wheel weight increase, comfort/compliance decrease.
With only one exception. For winter ice/snow or a bit rallyish use 16 seems better choice. More bad road compliance, cheaper tires, narrower tire availability.
Not all race classes are "pinnacle of performance" targeted. And as tires are often the biggest performance factors, often those are very strictly regulated. Sometimes due certain tiremaker sponsorship, sometimes to limit someone's unfair advantage via eg. much grippier lower thread-wear tires but set common competition ground via eg. monotire regulation for class, sometimes to keep participation costs reasonable. Not due "pinnacle of performance".

[leevanf]

Originally Posted by churchx

leevanf: it's less performance regulated, more class tire limit regulation. Outside those specific races with specific technical requirements, for normal twin, be it DD car or generic track day toy, 17 hits more of a sweat spot, with much wider good performance tire selection, clearing lot of BBKs, adding a bit more steering sharpness feel, while not getting much of drawbacks of going even bigger, as tire cost increase, wheel weight increase, comfort/compliance decrease.
With only one exception. For winter ice/snow or a bit rallyish use 16 seems better choice. More bad road compliance, cheaper tires, narrower tire availability.
Not all race classes are "pinnacle of performance" targeted. And as tires are often the biggest performance factors, often those are very strictly regulated. Sometimes due certain tiremaker sponsorship, sometimes to limit someone's unfair advantage via eg. much grippier lower thread-wear tires but set common competition ground via eg. monotire regulation for class, sometimes to keep participation costs reasonable. Not due "pinnacle of performance".

I realized that its hard to find good 16s, it seems like the advan v105 is the only thing i could find here if indeed i ever end up with the t66f in 16.

My 17 choices will be wedsport tc105n, t66f still, or a ze40. Tbh i like the wedsport/ze40 simple designs a lot more than the t66f’s predator face design lol.


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[mrg666]

Originally Posted by leevanf

A quick search on "gazoo 86 tws 16" and youll notice the different early gazoo racing 86es all run 16s. (not referring to the current GRMN)

Anybody know what the rationale for running this wheel size and narrow tires for?
The toyota ran TWS, 16x7, and the BRZ ran 16x6.5 BBS with "dunlop rubber". they went with taller 205/55 rather than 225/50s. Engines are NA and from what i see, they just have cages, MU brake pads, and theyre even on stock height!

Is this enough to conclude that if you are doing a "stock" build, sort off, 16s are really the pinnacle of performance for stock/factory class?

Pinnacle of performance depends on many conditions
- What is the performance requirement, street, drag, drift, track, autocross, rally?
- what kind of track, long straights, many curves, pavement type, rain/dry?
- what is that *you* want in your car, playful, stable, mpg, just looks?
- what is the climate in the area?

In short, there is no pinnacle.

[TommyW]

A lot will depend on how the suspension is set up whether 16's will be an advantage or not.

[DarkPira7e]

Maybe it's to help dampen the suspension to keep the car planted a little better?

[mrg666]

Latest GR 86 has 17 wheels with 215/45-17 front, 235/45-17 rear tires.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/gr86/exterior/

So there is the pinnacle!

[nikitopo]

The GR 86 is a car on the same category with the BRZ tS. It doesn't have any relation with the Gazoo 86/BRZ cars which as mentioned before they are caged "stock" cars on coilovers and on 205/55R16 semi-slick tires. The reason of this size is because of the Gazoo race regulation. The specific races are very short consisting of a range up to 10 laps. You have different tire requirements when running such a short race and when you run let's say a 2 hour race.

[leevanf]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The GR 86 is a car on the same category with the BRZ tS. It doesn't have any relation with the Gazoo 86/BRZ cars which as mentioned before they are caged "stock" cars on coilovers and on 205/55R16 semi-slick tires. The reason of this size is because of the Gazoo race regulation. The specific races are very short consisting of a range up to 10 laps. You have different tire requirements when running such a short race and when you run let's say a 2 hour race.

Hey Nikitopo, some awesome facts there! I wanted to discuss further, to find out why indeed its on 16s. Is it because out of nowhere, the race mandated 16 + 205/55s? or was it because engineers figured out 16s on 205/55s are indeed the best performance they can get out of the car for a 10 lap race, considering they cant modify the car (no bbk, no engine mods, etc),

My intention is they did it out of maximum functionality versus just race mandates. I got an exhaust and plan to do wheels and tires for my car. But since i want this upgrade to be really functional - hence this much interest in 16s. Because if otherwise, I may end up with 17s.

TWS T66F 16x6 on either 225/50 or 205/55 ContiExtreme/ Advan v105s
TWS T66F 17x8 on either 225/50 or 205/55 ContiExtreme/ Advan v105s
Wedsport TC105N 17x8 on 215/45/17 Michelin PS4
Used JDM STI Wheels 17x7.5 on 215/45/17 Michelin PS4
Rays ZE40 17x8 on 215/45/17 Michelin PS4

are all my choices

[churchx]

For maximum overall functionality/versatility i'd say to go for R17. I already mentioned several reasons in previous post of mine, why it seems "sweet spot"/best compromise from available choices. Non street legal track only prepped caged car with class mandated tire choice certainly doesn't seem to me as best target to take cues from.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Latest GR 86 has 17 wheels with 215/45-17 front, 235/45-17 rear tires.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/gr86/exterior/

So there is the pinnacle!

Wow that is very nice, perfect amount of tasteful mods

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Wow that is very nice, perfect amount of tasteful mods

Agreed but those staggered wheels are not something I would like though. I am settled with 245/40-17 on 17x8 square for summer and 205/55-16 on 16x7 for winter. Looking so much forward to having the summer wheels on.