If the S2000 were to return, would you guys be excited?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Coleman actually spends a long time talking about the BRZ vs. ND Miata comparison. Despite its inferior hp/weight ratio, the ND's superior torque/weight ratio allows it to be the quicker of the two. Basically comes down to area under the curve.

From his comments, it seems like his team only focused on acceleration and daily usability, but didn't really consider the enjoyment factor of a higher redline.

I will say high RPM, low displacement NA engines really seem to be hit or miss with folks. Some hated the F20/22 and B18C1/5 because of their anemic low-end torque and requirement for downshifting and redlining. Others loved them. But based on the popularity of turbo compacts today, I'd guess more people disliked them sadly.

Yea but the Miata is way lighter, so its much faster at lower rpm even with less torque.

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[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea but the Miata is way lighter, so its much faster at lower rpm even with less torque.

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Let's say hypothetically Mazda were to drop the FA20 into the ND Miata. It would definitely be faster because of the additional horsepower, but not as much as the hp/weight ratio would suggest because of the gaping hole in the powerband. And now you'd have people complain how slow the car felt in normal driving because of the hole in the midrange.

I think that's what Coleman was getting at. Yes bumping output to 100 hp/L would make the car faster, but not as much as the express hp figure would suggest, and would come at the expense of driveability to some degree. He doesn't think the trade-off is worth it.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 86Tony

If a new s2k comes out, ima be the first inline for one. People.that hates the s2k never even drove on. Drives like a 86 but more raw and more power.

I wouldn't say I hate the S2K. I don't love it. I don't miss mine at all. I liked the transmission.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Boxsters are cheaper than S2000's now.

Edit: There's even a handful of 987 S's cheaper than S2000's near me, that's 280+ hp on tap. Not to mention many 986 S models which match the S2000's output but with the engine in the middle of the car... If you can DIY I think Porsche is the way to go at this point for a non-Miata performance ragtop under $20k. While the Honda may have the edge in recurring maintenance costs I think I'd take my chances with a well maintained boxster over a Honda that's been thrashed as they so often are at reasonable prices.

Because IMS failures.


I wouldn't touch an M96 or pre 09 M97 engine car. Yeah, I know, most won't fail, but that constant thought in the back of my head would always make me wonder.. and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch one.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The thing I never understood is why Mazda just don't make a high revving(100hp/L) version of the current engine in the Mx5 with suspension tweaks(lot less roll) for 30k base. That car would be a S2000 since it would be about 500+ lbs lighter with 40hp less for $30,000

Probably because they can't for a reasonable cost. When's the last time Mazda made a non-turbo, non-rotary high performance engine period? Exactly... If they did, it'd be $40k.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I wouldn't say I hate the S2K. I don't love it. I don't miss mine at all. I liked the transmission.

You're definitely in the minority though. Most consider the S2k easily superior to the MR2 and Integra.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

You're definitely in the minority though. Most consider the S2k easily superior to the MR2 and Integra.

There is a very vocal group that will defend the s2000 to their dying breath. Many of them have never owned or driven the car. They just "heard" it was the best ever. The Toyota Supra and the 2JZ engine has the same type following. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that or feeling like that either. (Yes, I do see you own one.)

I had an Integra GSR.....loved it. I have a 2ZZ MR-S.....love it. I went and test drove an s2000 back in 2001 when I had the opportunity to buy one new. I didn't love it. Back then I was lusting over a 1995 RX-7 for a bit less than what they wanted for the s2000 and I thought the s2000 did not measure up in comparison. That and the fact that I just did not fit very well in the Honda. In the long run, I ended up buying neither. I kept the GSR for a while and then bought a 350Z a couple years later.

It is funny in a way because I constantly read on here about guys that are comparing used s2000s to the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 and it reminds me of what I was doing 16 years ago.

By the way, I did own 2 Supra including a turbo. I didn't love them either so maybe it is just me.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Because IMS failures.


I wouldn't touch an M96 or pre 09 M97 engine car. Yeah, I know, most won't fail, but that constant thought in the back of my head would always make me wonder.. and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch one.

It's not like Honda is immune to failure.

Looking at used boxsters, many are coming up on a clutch replacement which means IMS can be inspected and/or replaced on the 986 for those who plan on DIY, which I think was one of the stipulations in my recommendation... 260hp from a mid-engined flat-6, <3,000 lbs, sports car for the same money as a used S2k or 86?

Yeah I might just 'pay to play' with that one, even if it means taking the tranny off every 5 years or so to replace the IMS or trusting that the M97 is solid.



Definitely a big roll of the dice for someone who can't DIY who will be at the mercy of their mechanic...

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

You're definitely in the minority though. Most consider the S2k easily superior to the MR2 and Integra.

I'd hope so at a >50% higher price point, both new and used. Actually used the gap goes up further with S2k's 2x-3x the cost of Integra's and MR2's (and Miata's) unless it's a Type R.

For what Dave's doing though his choices make sense, both the Integra and MR2 are cheaper to run hard and have challenging, rewarding dynamics. Personally, at this point they're higher up on my list of cars I want than an S2k. Well, maybe not the SW20...

[JRRIII]

Having owned a ap1 for many years the majority of that time driving it daily, unless they kept the new ones (if they even make them) that "pure" I wouldn't be all that excited about it, especially to the point where I would go out and buy one. It would really have to be something special for me to buy one over a late model ap1 if I was in the market to buy a roadster. Would be interesting to see a coupe model kinda like the miata coupes Japan has..

[ichitaka05]

My view on this, I don't see any issue with them bringing back S2000. Hell, I hope to see Nissan & other brand to bring back more sports/sporty cars.

More options of sports/sporty cars are always better options

[STZ]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

My view on this, I don't see any issue with them bringing back S2000. Hell, I hope to see Nissan & other brand to bring back more sports/sporty cars.

More options of sports/sporty cars are always better options

Cheaper sports cars seem to be making somewhat of a comeback after the last few years being pretty dead.

Some of the incoming, and potentially incoming cars to us
BMW M2 (cheap relative to M4)
RX-Vision
Civic Type R to America for the first time
Focus RS to America for the first time
Nissan's 370Z successor
Genesis Coupe (someone mentioned they're doing something with it right now?)
S2000 possibly

Makes a bit hesitant to buy an 86 next year when I actually need a car, but I'm sure it's just a case of the grass being greener on the other side.

With that being said, my future potential choices are the RX-Vision, Genesis, and the Z. Type R and S2000 are both off because fwd 4-door and convertible. Even if I wait though, I'm still not exactly comfortable with owning an unproven Rotary, and Genesis seems to be moving in the direction of bigger, heavier, sports-luxury which is not what I want. The Z is the only real contender but it's not even a prototype and it's only an idea at this point.

Personally I don't like the markup of European vehicles in America and maintenance costs so I'll never own one, and I just don't like American cars in general. By default I'm left with Japanese brands.

My only dissatisfaction with the twins is that the torque is a teeny bit too low for my liking. It's not enough to steer me away from the car but it's small enough to make me sad that they couldn't just improve it that slightly to make it perfect and make me dilly-dally around for a few months. It's still my favourite reasonable car on the market today though so I don't think I'll have any ragrets if I buy one. If the Dorito engine or the Z proves to be amazing in the.... 4-5 years if we get to see them, I can always just trade the 86 in.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Because IMS failures.


I wouldn't touch an M96 or pre 09 M97 engine car. Yeah, I know, most won't fail, but that constant thought in the back of my head would always make me wonder.. and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch one.

Don't forget the cracking cylinder liners...after reading porsche forums I was convinced the engines are just not worth the trouble. The new engines are much more powerful, reliable, and even lighter.

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[Thebowzer]

Originally Posted by STZ

My only dissatisfaction with the twins is that the torque is a teeny bit too low for my liking. It's not enough to steer me away from the car but it's small enough to make me sad that they couldn't just improve it that slightly to make it perfect and make me dilly-dally around for a few months. It's still my favourite reasonable car on the market today though so I don't think I'll have any ragrets if I buy one. If the Dorito engine or the Z proves to be amazing in the.... 4-5 years if we get to see them, I can always just trade the 86 in.

Aren't they brushing up the torque dip with the facelift in MY2017/18/whenever the facelift comes?

[STZ]

Originally Posted by Thebowzer

Aren't they brushing up the torque dip with the facelift in MY2017/18/whenever the facelift comes?

Supposedly a 5% torque increase, but I don't think they'll fix the dip since IIRC it's intentional for emission testing reasons.