For the time attack guys, Traction Control on or off?

[Str8Ghostin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Use the pedal dance; the 5 second hold does not fully remove the nannies and electronics.

Will do sir, I appreciate the help!

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Use the pedal dance; the 5 second hold does not fully remove the nannies and electronics.

Does the pedal dance also work with the 2015 WRX?

[AZP Installs]

No need for the pedal dance. If you are getting into the area where the pedal dance is effective, you aren't driving the car smooth enough.

The regular 2-button hold for 5 sec is what you need and should leave the ABS engaged.

-mike

[celica73]

Originally Posted by ayau

Does the pedal dance also work with the 2015 WRX?

Probably not, since it's a Toyota thing, not a Subaru thing.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

No need for the pedal dance. If you are getting into the area where the pedal dance is effective, you aren't driving the car smooth enough.

The regular 2-button hold for 5 sec is what you need and should leave the ABS engaged.

-mike

Pedal dance leaves ABS on... it just disables EBFD and "ice mode". If you're running staggered pad compounds, or like to trail brake hard it can make a big difference compared to just holding the TC button for 5 seconds. Doesn't mean you're not driving smoothly.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

No need for the pedal dance. If you are getting into the area where the pedal dance is effective, you aren't driving the car smooth enough.

The regular 2-button hold for 5 sec is what you need and should leave the ABS engaged.

-mike

I beg to differ; if you're ever on the west coast, try driving WSIR without the pedal dance and you'll very quickly change your mind. T8 involves a lot of undulating bumps at 120+, and the e-lsd will try to "fix" inside rear wheel spin, and instead make the car try to kill you.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I beg to differ; if you're ever on the west coast, try driving WSIR without the pedal dance and you'll very quickly change your mind. T8 involves a lot of undulating bumps at 120+, and the e-lsd will try to "fix" inside rear wheel spin, and instead make the car try to kill you.

Hmmm. A car that tries to kill you?
That sounds like a great concept! You should write a book. Maybe they'll adapt it to a movie too!

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Pedal dance leaves ABS on... it just disables EBFD and "ice mode". If you're running staggered pad compounds, or like to trail brake hard it can make a big difference compared to just holding the TC button for 5 seconds. Doesn't mean you're not driving smoothly.

I can attest to the fact that the pedal dance does not eliminate ice mode.

I suppose I should add that after being one of the biggest fans of the pedal dance, I have actually quit using it for autocross. I still try it now and then but I've gotten too used to (or good at?) letting the EBD sort it out for me, and the dance inevitably results in the ABS freaking out anytime I dive into a corner on the brakes (BIG front sway bar, stock springs).

I'm sure I could tweak my driving style to make it work but it's hard to justify that when I'm getting good results. On a road course with higher speed turns it would be a different story.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I can attest to the fact that the pedal dance does not eliminate ice mode.

I suppose I should add that after being one of the biggest fans of the pedal dance, I have actually quit using it for autocross. I still try it now and then but I've gotten too used to (or good at?) letting the EBD sort it out for me, and the dance inevitably results in the ABS freaking out anytime I dive into a corner on the brakes (BIG front sway bar, stock springs).

I'm sure I could tweak my driving style to make it work but it's hard to justify that when I'm getting good results. On a road course with higher speed turns it would be a different story.

It's tempting, when competing, to do what get you the best result NOW, but learning to threshold brake may end up with you becoming faster in the long run, especially if you left foot brake.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's tempting, when competing, to do what get you the best result NOW, but learning to threshold brake may end up with you becoming faster in the long run, especially if you left foot brake.

I don't left foot brake, but interesting academic discussion here at the risk of hijacking the thread.

For starters, philosophically I agree with this guy. The short of it is it's just as important, if not more important, to make sure you don't go too long on the brakes as it is to make sure you're threshold braking.

Now let's look at autocross. These are the top things that determine your lap times:
- car placement
- distance traveled
- apex speed before longest straight
...roughly in that order. Threshold braking is certainly important, but generally only at large National events - smaller local events might have one or two heavy braking zones max. Some of the really small lots are 100% momentum maintenance.

At a local last weekend I used third gear twice. Using it even once is pretty rare unless you're at a national event.

We're forgetting one thing though, average speeds. In general, the amount of speed I need to scrub to make a turn at an autocross is much smaller. For some features, if I only need to scrub 10-15mph I actually don't want to threshold brake, because by the time I've reached the threshold I've scrubbed most or all of that speed; at this point my choices are to overslow or to upset the car by treating the brakes like an on/off switch. Stock springs are required in my class, so keep in mind every input to the car takes some time for the suspension to react, and it needs to finish reacting before you put another input in or you're asking for trouble (like a nose that's porpoising while trying to turn in).

Last but not least, I in particular have a big front sway bar, and this is where I lean the most on the EBD. Even a small amount of steering wheel lock at corner entry is enough to lighten the inside front such that in pedal dance mode, the ABS will lose its shirt (remember, you are reverting to single channel ABS). With EBD, it'll release brake pressure on just that wheel; without it, ABS reduces pressure for the whole system.

On a road course, would the pedal dance help me? Yeah.
If I switched to using real springs and smaller bars, would the pedal dance help me? Yeah.

As it stands now? I'm not convinced, and the lap times from one-off use of the dance back that up. That said I'll take your challenge on and do a whole event with the dance to see if I can adapt my driving.

[PowderfaceTr.]

If your traction control is kicking in you suck at driving. Removing it is denial.

Using more than 6% slip??? you have a lot to learn about racing.

Unless you pirouette around pylons like a wanna be keep it on.

Racing a car you cant just change out flat spotted Avons every lap. To post laps you must take care of your consumables, transmission and power train. Baggin your Frs heat cycling and acting like "TUNERZ" cus you read a thread has got to stop.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

If your traction control is kicking in you suck at driving. Removing it is denial.

Using more than 6% slip??? you have a lot to learn about racing.

Unless you pirouette around pylons like a wanna be keep it on.

Racing a car you cant just change out flat spotted Avons every lap. To post laps you must take care of your consumables, transmission and power train. Baggin your Frs heat cycling and acting like "TUNERZ" cus you read a thread has got to stop.

I'm doing it wrong. Thanks for educating me

[acro]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

If your traction control is kicking in you suck at driving. Removing it is denial.

Using more than 6% slip??? you have a lot to learn about racing.

Unless you pirouette around pylons like a wanna be keep it on.

Racing a car you cant just change out flat spotted Avons every lap. To post laps you must take care of your consumables, transmission and power train. Baggin your Frs heat cycling and acting like "TUNERZ" cus you read a thread has got to stop.

lol

Are you serious or is this sarcasm. If its not sarcasm i would tell you to just keep quiet

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

If your traction control is kicking in you suck at driving. Removing it is denial.

Using more than 6% slip??? you have a lot to learn about racing.