SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by Arigh
The 370Z is in BS, it includes both the base model, and the go fast model with a LSD and a power bump. You need the higher model to be competitive.
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That standard regular-ass CS 370Z covered the field in BS at nationals, despite running on the green course last year. I'm not sure you can say a regular 370Z can't be competitive, or no one has really build a Nismo 370Z in BS?

Originally Posted by 7thgear

That's horrible,. I did not know this, I suppose the base 370z should have stayed in CS.

No, this car raped us with minimal prep (stock wheels, etc etc) It's a CS overdog, and seemingly much more competitive than the slightly heavier, and less powerful longer wheel base 350Z.


Local rink a dink bullshit autocross, a 370Z is no faster than a twin, a nationals style SCCA course, it's a big spread.

[DylanFRS]

I am failing to see this as good news. Either I now have to buy a bunch of parts only to remove them in a year (assuming those of us late to the game can even get the parts) or the FR-S gets moved up to BS and I have to trade in for a BRZ just to get back to the point I was at one week ago, a mildly competitive car in CS.

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Seriously?

Probably. I'm still thinking about all my options, but I definitely don't think I'll be competing the BRZ this year and don't really see moving over to an FR-S either.

Originally Posted by renfield90

Let's talk.

Look for a PM within the next couple days. I have to warn you that these are 'custom' based on Koni's expertise. While I did ask for plots, I guess I should've been more 'lawyerly' because what I got were traces right off the plotter with no units/numbers/etc(!). e.g.:


At least there is no cross talk on the rebound adjustment to the compression side, the compression side is REALLY digressive, and there is a LOT of fairly digressive rebound adjustment to work with. They are also well matched R-L. It's been two years, but when I switch from stock to OTS I didn't notice much, if any, difference on the street. Even with just the rears, I definitely notice a difference between these and OEMs.

[SeanRTR]

Why did you guys buy the BRZ anyway? Isn't it just the same damn car, but slightly heavier, and significantly more expensive? I know it comes with the touch screen radio, but when you're driving around drinking your beer, who wants the additional complications of that anyway? I've never understood paying extra just to avoid the stigma of driving a 'Scion'.


jdrxb9 , don't go jumping ship quite yet. You may want to at least see how things shake out over the next couple national events. Still a lot of time for events our side of the country that actually matter. At a minimum, I can't imagine the SCCA allowing all the BRZ owners to just get boned in stock class compared to the FR-S. These two cars will be equally classed and prepped for at least the 2016 season.

[tahdizzle]

I wouldn't say a BRZ is significanltly more expensive than a FR-S.
But this discussion has been done over and over.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

jdrxb9 , don't go jumping ship quite yet. You may want to at least see how things shake out over the next couple national events. Still a lot of time for events our side of the country that actually matter. At a minimum, I can't imagine the SCCA allowing all the BRZ owners to just get boned in stock class compared to the FR-S. These two cars will be equally classed and prepped for at least the 2016 season.

+1, took the words out of my mouth.

[TrqlessWonder]

Why did you guys buy the BRZ anyway? Isn't it just the same damn car, but slightly heavier, and significantly more expensive? I know it comes with the touch screen radio, but when you're driving around drinking your beer, who wants the additional complications of that anyway? I've never understood paying extra just to avoid the stigma of driving a 'Scion'.


jdrxb9 , don't go jumping ship quite yet. You may want to at least see how things shake out over the next couple national events. Still a lot of time for events our side of the country that actually matter. At a minimum, I can't imagine the SCCA allowing all the BRZ owners to just get boned in stock class compared to the FR-S. These two cars will be equally classed and prepped for at least the 2016 season.

^^A whole lot of this. The '13 FR-S interiors (mostly the base radio) did make me cringe a bit, but the touch-screen radio was added to all '14s.

And a big +1 on the wait to see how this plays out. There's more than one way for this to turn out, both short and long term.

Sent the SEB a request for interpretation. That'll at least let us know what we're looking at for the rest of the season. My letter didn't involve any opinion, just basic info, and a "how do you folks see this?" with the letter attached.

If any of the rest of you have an opinion either way on this, you may want to make your thoughts known to people that actually matter:

sebscca.com

Why a letter? Because showing a competitor/PC the May or June Fastrack is a much stronger argument than that letter is.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Why did you guys buy the BRZ anyway? Isn't it just the same damn car, but slightly heavier, and significantly more expensive? I know it comes with the touch screen radio, but when you're driving around drinking your beer, who wants the additional complications of that anyway? I've never understood paying extra just to avoid the stigma of driving a 'Scion'.

I just preferred the front of the car a little bit more than the FRS. It also helped that when and where I was looking the FRS really wasn't cheaper than a BRZ.

[VADERR]

I came from STU to CS to avoid an arms race but, I think that was quite silly of me in light of this new loophole.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by VADERR

I came from STU to CS to avoid an arms race but, I think that was quite silly of me in light of this new loophole.

Street is a bad place if you want stability, except for maybe ES. At any point in time, a new/updated model can come out and screw you. The ND Miata could make this whole episode irrelevant.

With a street touring arms race you can at least fight back. If you want real rules/classing stability, go to prepared. Not even ESP is safe, just ask all of last year's ESP WRXs.

[markw]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

bulletin prohibiting this weaseling is much more sensible.

It's not weaseling, it's following the rules. A car setup with the TRD springs is going to be good through the end of this year.

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by markw

It's not weaseling, it's following the rules. A car setup with the TRD springs is going to be good through the end of this year.

I agree. And I sincerely appreciate the comments on not 'bailing' and waiting to see how things play out. But here's something to consider - a comment elsewhere by a rather vocal member of the SEB regarding the April Fastrack Porsche option clarification:

"So if you don't like this, and I'm frankly not that comfortable with it either, then write in with how to fix it. Outside of "Fuck you, we hate Porsche so we're not going to follow our own rules and won't allow this", there was basically no other answer to this one.

That does NOT mean the rules can't be changed.

So I think the parts are legal for 2015.

On all the folks saying this will create unfair classing for 'normal' FRS's and BRZ's and it is a 'terrible' approach to classing, etc. Well, maybe so, but as recently noted above it is very much par for the course for SCCA Stock/Street. Looking through the current classes, I'll add the following examples of 'non-optimal' but common cars to the ones mentioned previously:
SSR/AS - non-GS C6
SS - non-sport package, non-LSD Elise
BS - non-Z51 C5
CS - non-sport package Miata
ES - non-sport package Miata (not a typo)
FS - non -1LE Camaro, non-ZCP M3's, non-Shelby Mustangs
HS - non-JCW-equipped Mini

So for 2015, running a BRZ is like running any of the examples above. Maybe fun for locals, but would you bring one of the examples above to the 4(!) Pro Solo's you are already registered for? I wouldn't.

That said, I'll probably keep the BRZ. It is a perfect DD for me - classic 'handling' and 'feel', just big enough, just enough cargo (bicycle) room, just enough power, good mpg, etc. I personally went with the BRZ due to my local dealer situation. I was an EARLY purchaser and my Subaru dealer got me exactly what I wanted.

Right now, I've got a line on a MR2 for ES - should be cheap to buy/prep/run, should be similarly fun to the BRZ, will definitely continue to challenge my driving, is a half step closer to a long term CM plan, and I've never owned a convertible

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

...

Sent the SEB a request for interpretation. That'll at least let us know what we're looking at for the rest of the season. ...

Also, there was a post earlier that basically said the national office will tell you what is legal or not. Keep in mind that while an opinion from the national office is a worthwhile and good thing to have, they do not really establish legality for anything or generate the content for Fastrack, etc. They implement what we the membership, via the various boards and committees, establish. For a longer explanation, see: http://www.solomatters.com/how-an-id...-rules-process

[jdrxb9]

And one more - here is my take on how the competitiveness of the package will shake out. This is a total SWAG based on PAX - yes, I know - feel free to disregard as you see fit.

Based on 2014 nationals throwing out the 370's and Fenter, the 86 folks (Sean, John H, and Quinonez) were about 1% off the top RX-8's.

The 2015 pax numbers are:
CS 0.814
BS 0.826
STX 0.831

normalizing those to CS:
CS twin 99.0%
CS 100.0%
BS 101.5%
STX 102.1%

So, here's the big WAG - how close do the TRD parts get you to 'full STX' performance? Keep in mind - no torque improvement, no redline improvement, no lightweighting, and probably same tire on 2" narrower wheel.

Do they get you 1/3 of the way to STX? (~100% on normalized scale) - I can buy this and now the FRS is a great CS car.
Do they get you 1/2 of the way to STX? (~100.6% on normalized scale) - I doubt this, but if so, the FRS is an overdog in CS or a poor BS car.
Do they get you 2/3 of the way to STX? (~101% on normalized scale) - I REALLY doubt this, but if so, the FRS is a decent BS car.