All about replicas: Corner-Cutting Commentary

[z3ro]

I think I can speak on this. I recently bought a house. And then I bought my FRS. I had to ask the question, which is a better investment. Easily the answer is the house. I know I can make money when I sell. The car is a bunch of steel and aluminum that almost infinitely loses value over time. But the car makes me happy. I get in and shift gears and for a brief moment forget about work and stress. Im free to drive and I think that hits home for alot of us. Whos to say whats right and wrong if we mod our cars in a way that makes us smile when we drive.

I am fortunate enough to have a good job that pays well; I know some of us cant afford that luxury. I will still buy rotas. It is what it is. Whether you want to blow 200 dollars or 2000 dollars, its the drive that unites us, not the dollar sign attached.

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[AznKirby]

I feel like everybody is side-stepping the fact that "real" wheels do not have to cost you an arm and a leg.

Originally Posted by fatoni

the point is that if someone buys $800 wheels, it has no impact on you at all. why would you care? people and cars have been around for a while. there arent really that many new things people can do to make a new wheel and have people actually want it. in the 70s and 80s all the japanese market did was blatantly copy euro companies. lexus, toyota, nisan, datsun, mazda etc are just shitty knockoffs. we should all be driving bimmers or jags.

People are allowed to do what they want, and I am allowed to speak my mind. Isn't that how it works? And I care because of the reasons written in my post, that you quoted.

[Dimman]

It's also not like the cars don't come with functional wheels...

Non knock off options:

Stock wheels. Amazing concept, I know...

Inexpensive original wheels.

Used big-dollar original wheels in good shape. There are plenty of rich trend chasers that flip wheels. I had some retardedly light JDM forged monobloc Volk/TRD wheels on my Supra. New they would have cost more than I paid for the car. I got them for a song as the previous owner was upgrading. This is where you trade time for money looking for the right set in the right condition. It can be fun and/or challenging. Let someone else take the depreciation.

New quality original wheels. Depending how far up the forged monobloc ladder you go, this can get painfully expensive very fast. Then change them in a year or two after taking good care and selling at a good price to your less fortunate forum brothers or sisters. Win for everyone!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by AznKirby

I feel like everybody is side-stepping the fact that "real" wheels do not have to cost you an arm and a leg.



People are allowed to do what they want, and I am allowed to speak my mind. Isn't that how it works? And I care because of the reasons written in my post, that you quoted.

i know and im not trying to stop you but i disagree with some of the fundamental concepts. i think that there should be a competition. i dont want companies like rays to have a virtual monopoly on rims. if a company can provide a wheel that meets the needs of a certain population for significantly less than another company, why is that a bad thing?

if people feel like they need to spend an arm and a leg on rims, go ahead. if people think that there is a significant savings for a minimal loss in abstract performance, go ahead. all i know is that cast wheels work. i dont see the need for a forged wheel for anybody who is writing the check on their own wheels. if you were that fast or important, it would be on someone elses tab. unless thats what youre into and then by all means, enjoy your endeavor.

[AznKirby]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i know and im not trying to stop you but i disagree with some of the fundamental concepts. i think that there should be a competition. i dont want companies like rays to have a virtual monopoly on rims. if a company can provide a wheel that meets the needs of a certain population for significantly less than another company, why is that a bad thing?

if people feel like they need to spend an arm and a leg on rims, go ahead. if people think that there is a significant savings for a minimal loss in abstract performance, go ahead. all i know is that cast wheels work. i dont see the need for a forged wheel for anybody who is writing the check on their own wheels. if you were that fast or important, it would be on someone elses tab. unless thats what youre into and then by all means, enjoy your endeavor.

I agree that having competition is healthy.
Competition shouldn't mean imitation, though. The reason why competition is good is the availability of choice to the consumer. With that in mind, I don't think a company like Rota is contributing anything towards that variety of choice. Cheaper alternative of the same wheel design =/= choice: it's just cheaper product.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by AznKirby

I agree that having competition is healthy.
Competition shouldn't mean imitation, though. The reason why competition is good is the availability of choice to the consumer. With that in mind, I don't think a company like Rota is contributing anything towards that variety of choice. Cheaper alternative of the same wheel design =/= choice: it's just cheaper product.

i get that but at the same time, companies like rota provide a usable product for a significant discount. they work, i see them at the track and they do fine. you can buy some volks and shave 10lbs or you can buy some rotas and a brake upgrade and shave 20lbs and stop better all while keeping the cost of replacement down. i just see the markets for either being different enough to support both. it also seems like some of the cheaper companies are quicker to respond to consumer needs too (like the mach v awesome v 5zigen thing here). i guess my bottom line is that some of the elitist wheel people are silly. its a cheap car, whats wrong with cheap wheels?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i get that but at the same time, companies like rota provide a usable product for a significant discount. they work, i see them at the track and they do fine. you can buy some volks and shave 10lbs or you can buy some rotas and a brake upgrade and shave 20lbs and stop better all while keeping the cost of replacement down. i just see the markets for either being different enough to support both. it also seems like some of the cheaper companies are quicker to respond to consumer needs too (like the mach v awesome v 5zigen thing here). i guess my bottom line is that some of the elitist wheel people are silly. its a cheap car, whats wrong with cheap wheels?

Alternative view. Rota sales are driven by their copying of original styles, and would not be a successful company without their copying.

They are one of the most well known cheap wheel companies and also the most prolific imitator. These are not coincidence.

As I've mentioned before there are companies like ASA that use properly licensed technology, original design, quality manufacture and are inexpensive that nobody bothers to create zillions of internet threads about. And most of the Rota threads are for pics looking for approval of their car's style.

And those wheel styles don't come from Rota.

[OmarGC]

Originally Posted by Dimman

This is NOT a cheap vs expensive argument.

It is about intellectual property and poseurs.

Rota and other knock off wheel companies only exist because of their continuous rip off of successful wheel designs.

There are other wheel companies that produce inexpensive cast wheels but they do not have a zillion internet discussions about them. Why? Because they don't look like Rays/Volk etc... And don't have Rota's internet bullshit propaganda machine spewing massive misrepresentations of their products.

ASA is a Korean company that had BBS set up their casting facilities. They are a good, inexpensive cast wheel. But nobody cares because they don't knock off top level companies' style.

It's funny how the same people that can laugh at and dismiss the blatant Chinese knock off companies cars, Apple products, restaurants like MacRonald's and KFG Chicken. But as soon as money interferes with their car style, it's off to Rota and create delusional self-justifying excuses.

Show some respect for the companies that are driving, respecting and advancing the industry by not promoting knock offs.

This x 1000

I'm a little harsh though... I hope the Rota facilities burn to the ground, xxr, and Varrstoens to never reopen. Lolololol

Also, I think guys should be aware of companies like SSR and how cheap their cast lines actually are. Example: SSR GTV02's can be had for under $1400 in a hubcentric specific size in a 5x100 18x9.5 +38 square setup. But here we are with a scene flooded by people buying knocks offs for nearly the same price.(a grand for Rotas) because people automatically assume that if it's a "Jdm" or original design that it's going to be 500+ a wheel and discourage themselves prior to actually looking into it. Future buyers, seriously message your vendors... Multiple, you'll be amazed at what you can save and get things you truly want.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Alternative view. Rota sales are driven by their copying of original styles, and would not be a successful company without their copying.

They are one of the most well known cheap wheel companies and also the most prolific imitator. These are not coincidence.

As I've mentioned before there are companies like ASA that use properly licensed technology, original design, quality manufacture and are inexpensive that nobody bothers to create zillions of internet threads about. And most of the Rota threads are for pics looking for approval of their car's style.

And those wheel styles don't come from Rota.

If volk would make a cheap copy of their popular rims it wouldn't be a problem so I still see rota filling a need not quite being met. What you mention of my real issue though. I'm sure these cheap creative wheels are fine too but this silly debate creates an excessive sense of wheel elitism.

[DarkSunrise]

When I buy wheels, my rule of thumb is to get the least expensive flow-form cast wheel that looks good (e.g., usually Enkei MAT or TSW rotary forged wheels, like RPF1s or Nurburgrings). That way, the wheels have some advanced manufacturing processes going into them and are about 15% lighter than a comparably strong cast wheel, but usually don't cost more than $250 to replace if need be.

I would love to get a forged monoblock BBS wheel at 4x the cost, but honestly don't see that making sense for my situation. I've also run gravity and low pressure cast wheels in the past and have never had an issue with them. Wouldn't hesitate to do that again if the situation arose.

[Superhatch]

I hope everyone who buys high end genuine wheels and then has an issue with knock offs also buys high end EVERYTHING...because almost everything is a knock off.

Oh, you're buying your clothes at Target/Gap/Banana Republic? They are all just last years runway colors and styles (maybe even 2-3 years)...all out of style knockoffs. Intellectual property rip offs, almost directly.

Using a washer and dryer which is front loading that isn't a a European brand? Well shit, that's a knockoff then because they have been doing front loading machines for a decade or more.

Bro, did you even research your silverware to find out if the design is a close copy to one of the high end brands you can't afford? Poser.

What kind of watch do you wear? Unless you dropped mega loot on a Tag or the like you're wearing a second tier piece of shit which likely copied it's style and tech from the higher end watches.

Seriously, how far do you want to take this? The real vs. fake argument is a joke because people get SO FUCKING HUNG UP about wheels for their $10,000 car. Get a life and realize that to someone almost everything you own is a knock-off you 1/2 rate, broke ass, copycat.

[TylerLieberman]

People bitching about legit wheels costing an arm and a leg...

Rotas cost ~$900 set
XXRs cost ~$700 set

There are wheels from Gram Lights, Enkei, Work, Weds, and other companies that cost as low as $1200/set brand new... Idk how $300 is the difference of an arm and a leg.

Maybe I value my limbs more than others do...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

If volk would make a cheap copy of their popular rims it wouldn't be a problem so I still see rota filling a need not quite being met. What you mention of my real issue though. I'm sure these cheap creative wheels are fine too but this silly debate creates an excessive sense of wheel elitism.

The elitism of status is what drives high-end everything.

Volk would not be Volk without the price/status/elitism attached to it.

@Superhatch That is a hard thing to do given the proliferation of the commodity brands. I've been looking into this idea for some time and it takes work. I'm fortunate enough to live in a region where this is beginning to look possible without exorbitant prices attached. We would do well to support local small independent manufacturing companies. I've found a place that will do custom shoes, tailors for shirts and suits, potters for table ware, cutlery is a PITA right now, my fancy watches are affordable vintage Swiss and German and my everyday watches are original design Seiko (with TAG relies on for technology, btw...).

It is really not an easy thing to do, but largely because the market is full of people chasing easy ways to almost get status/things they can't truly afford.

But I think more people should try.

[johnnie]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

People bitching about legit wheels costing an arm and a leg...

Rotas cost ~$900 set
XXRs cost ~$700 set

There are wheels from Gram Lights, Enkei, Work, Weds, and other companies that cost as low as $1200/set brand new... Idk how $300 is the difference of an arm and a leg.

Maybe I value my limbs more than others do...

Just because they are more expensive doesn't mean they're that much safer, and that has been proven time and time again, but oh well.

Anyway, using that logic outside the US:
Rota's are 900 € and are widely avaliable in several online stores.
Enkei RPF1 are 1400 € with very limited sizes/offsets and almost no suppliers.
Rays Works 57DR are 1300 € with very limited sizes/offsets and almost no suppliers.

So should i pay a 50%+ premium for brands that dont even have local distributors and dont really seem to care? I wont. Wheels are a comodity for me, they need to look good of course, but they're not jewelry to show-off when I go out.

Do I rant at people that buy those wheels? No, your money, your choice. But I certainly can't help but rant when people are being mindless snobs.