Fuel pump upgrade install (Visconti 290lph)

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by jet86

It's not really fighting it, it's just foam, the amount of time you are holding it up for is much shorter than removing it completely.

I know its foam, you just pull it up, then slide it down and its out. Would just give more room is all. But either is fine. Thanks for the write up.

[maj75]

Since the engine has two sets of injectors, I'm not sure how this pump upgrade will improve performance. The direct injection system works at high speed. Those injectors are controlled by their own high pressure pump. It seems to me that increasing the fuel pump pressure from the tank would only affect the port injection, which really has nothing to do with the high performance potential of this engine.

Please explain further.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by maj75

Since the engine has two sets of injectors, I'm not sure how this pump upgrade will improve performance. The direct injection system works at high speed. Those injectors are controlled by their own high pressure pump. It seems to me that increasing the fuel pump pressure from the tank would only affect the port injection, which really has nothing to do with the high performance potential of this engine.

Please explain further.

The ECU can run either port or direction injection (or both) at any RPM and any load. There's pre-set values to what is most optimal, but both are always available with a good tune (ecutek, etc). It's not just pure DI at higher revs in stock form though.

Unless you know what you're doing and tuning your car yourself (and see that you're maxing out the stock fuel system), or your tuner tells you that you need a bigger pump and/or injectors there is absolutely zero need to upgrade either.

There is zero benefit to running bigger pumps/injectors unless you're over taxing the stock parts.

[maj75]

Originally Posted by wparsons

The ECU can run either port or direction injection (or both) at any RPM and any load. There's pre-set values to what is most optimal, but both are always available with a good tune (ecutek, etc). It's not just pure DI at higher revs in stock form though.

Unless you know what you're doing and tuning your car yourself (and see that you're maxing out the stock fuel system), or your tuner tells you that you need a bigger pump and/or injectors there is absolutely zero need to upgrade either.

There is zero benefit to running bigger pumps/injectors unless you're over taxing the stock parts.

I did a search before I posted. There is a tutorial of the FRS fuel injection system which clearly states that the high pressure direct injection is the only one working at high speed. At start-up and low speed the injectors all work to promote fast heat up of the cats, etc.

Not saying that with some programming, you couldn't activate both, but since the system at high speed uses primarily the direct injection, it seems unlikely that the port injection as a supplement would require a higher pressure. It would be ridiculous to tune out the direct injection and rely solely on the port injection.

Seems to me that folks are relying on what worked on less sophisticated injection systems, rather than studying how the FRS system actually works.

[wparsons]

Like I said, the ECU is able to run port and/or direct injection any time it wants, BUT there is pre-determined strategies when to run each.

The port injection isn't off in a specific rpm range all the time from what I've read, they keep it on at least part of the time to keep the valves from gumming up (the whole reason it has port injection in the first place).

[jdogi]

Simple question. Once you've maxed out the current pair of injection systems and you need more fuel for more power, where are you going to turn first? Upgrade the "old school" port injectors and pump, or the DIS injectors and pump? ... Yea, that's what I thought.

Are we trying to make more power here or spend more money?... Yea, that's also what I thought.

Oh yea, jet86, thanks for the nice write-up!

[jet86]

I'm running 500cc port injectors, you will need to run a fuel system upgrade if you plan on running as much boost as mine, the sock port injectors just arnt big enough even with the direct injectors running, this setup in mine is good for 500hp+

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by jet86

I'm running 500cc port injectors, you will need to run a fuel system upgrade if you plan on running as much boost as mine, the sock port injectors just arnt big enough even with the direct injectors running, this setup in mine is good for 500hp+

Will be doing this in the next few days, soldering the cables close to gasoline?? Any tips?

[jet86]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Will be doing this in the next few days, soldering the cables close to gasoline?? Any tips?

Heat shrink the individual wires after you solder them, then heat shrink both the wires together.

[ATSAaron]

Gasoline dissolves heat shrink pretty quickly. It seems hokey, but a cheap butt splice is a better choice.

Aaron

[Sportsguy83]

@jet86, there are several critical steps missing from this DIY. You can follow the DW pump instructions, but there are some deviations needed to be clarified. I did this install with this DIY, and had to re-do it twice because the DW instructions are not exactly the same for the other pumps.

First, when the DW guide tells you to use two O-rings and shows nothing else, you NEED to install the plastic spacer the OEM pump has below its O-rings (so in this case the plastic piece goes below the two O-rings).

Also, the DW guide shows the pump sitting flush inside the canister. That is not the case for the other pumps (be it Visconti, Full Blown, et. al.). The other pumps are longer and do not sit flush inside the canister. You NEED to workaround this in order to secure the pump inside the canister.

Either you drill holes in the outer canister and use zip ties to hold the clips in place, or your remove the filter sock so you have more room to push the pump assembly down and hope the clips "click" in place.

I hope you update the first post with at least some discussion about this.

Thanks!

[congiiee]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

@jet86, there are several critical steps missing from this DIY. You can follow the DW pump instructions, but there are some deviations needed to be clarified. I did this install with this DIY, and had to re-do it twice because the DW instructions are not exactly the same for the other pumps.

First, when the DW guide tells you to use two O-rings and shows nothing else, you NEED to install the plastic spacer the OEM pump has below its O-rings (so in this case the plastic piece goes below the two O-rings).

Also, the DW guide shows the pump sitting flush inside the canister. That is not the case for the other pumps (be it Visconti, Full Blown, et. al.). The other pumps are longer and do not sit flush inside the canister. You NEED to workaround this in order to secure the pump inside the canister.

Either you drill holes in the outer canister and use zip ties to hold the clips in place, or your remove the filter sock so you have more room to push the pump assembly down and hope the clips "click" in place.

I hope you update the first post with at least some discussion about this.

Thanks!

Hey Sportsguy, I am thinking of just getting the DW65c fuel pump because it looks much easier and reversible versus Visconti's fuel pump that I got from him. With the DW65c and Visconti's 500cc injectors how much boost do you think I can run on E85? My goal is to eventually get to where Skatery is on E85 with his Supercharged set up.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by congiiee

Hey Sportsguy, I am thinking of just getting the DW65c fuel pump because it looks much easier and reversible versus Visconti's fuel pump that I got from him. With the DW65c and Visconti's 500cc injectors how much boost do you think I can run on E85? My goal is to eventually get to where Skatery is on E85 with his Supercharged set up.

In all honesty, I think you will be OK running E-85 at 15 psi with the DW65c.

The DW is 265 LPH, the Visconti pump is 290 LPH. I've read several other cars doing fine with 265 LPH pump up to 20+ psi. (That is why I conservatively say 15 psi is good and with margin).

[congiiee]

Thanks! I guess I'm gonna go that route. When I heard I had to solder for the other pumps that was just a no no