VS MINI Hardtop S

[Alias]

I'm curious to get a little feedback about this, other than a different wheel drive and the looks these cars seem to be very similar.

They're both touted for their good handling, around the same weight, approximately the same horsepower, same price range, hold 4 passengers in a similarly cramped fashion, similar fuel economy, basically the same 0-60, both "small" cars.

Is anyone considering a Mini as a backup if the brz/frs doesn't pan out for them?

[Miniata]

The Mini will probably be a little faster in a straight line and get a little better mpg, and be a little cheaper, at least base price, although they can be easily optioned to well over $30k.

We've had our (plain non-S) Mini Cooper for going on 7 years now, and I really love it, I ordered it with minimal options to keep the weight down, but went with the sport suspension and sport seats, at autocross weight it comes in at 2375 lbs. I have a feeling when I get the BRZ, the Mini will get driven even less than it does now.

[Capt Canuck]

What's a Mini hardtop S?

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

What's a Mini hardtop S?

I assumed he was referring to the standard Mini Cooper S, and said hardtop to differentiate it from the new Coupe, the roadster, or the convertible versions.

[Alias]

Originally Posted by Miniata

I assumed he was referring to the standard Mini Cooper S, and said hardtop to differentiate it from the new Coupe, the roadster, or the convertible versions.

Exactly, "hardtop" is what mini has it listed under on their US website and with their 80 different styles of the same cars I figured it was best to differentiate the same way they did to minimize confusion.

[MrBonus]

I owned a JCW previously. They are fun little cars but they aren't particularly reliable and I believe they're still having issues with the high pressure fuel pumps failing (Mine did at 500 miles) as well as various electrical gremlins.

They also aren't sophisticated cars. They are tightly sprung, giving the sensation of quick steering, but they quickly run out of suspension travel in the front on hard cornering which gives them a bump-steer-and-plow understeer feel when pushed and they don't have a great sense of stability, something many may consider to be a charm, but reduces the sense that you're driving a true performance car.

I imagine the BRZ will be a better thought out design from start to finish and ultimately more rewarding to drive.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

I owned a JCW previously. They are fun little cars but they aren't particularly reliable and I believe they're still having issues with the high pressure fuel pumps failing (Mine did at 500 miles) as well as various electrical gremlins.

BMW in general is dealing with high-pressure fuel pump issues, so anyone shopping a 135i or 335i should keep that in mind.

I drove a Mini S 6MT, 2008 maybe? My impressions can be summarized in these words:

-Weird
-Peppy
-Torque steer

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

I owned a JCW previously. .......

Your perspective is rather representative of R56 owners. Allegedly the '11+ Valvetronic engine is much improved in reliability aspects while also offering slightly better fuel economy.

I have a bit of experience with MINI's [ok I'm lying, I've have a $h!t-ton of experience with them]. I've owned 5 over an 8 year span. Three R53s and two R56s, and I even co-founded a MINI aftermarket tuner. The R56's are not drivers cars in the purist sense, however they are reasonably well performing. I would say the R53 JCW GP would be the poster child for MINI drivers cars...if you can find one as they're quite rare and highly coveted.

As a rule, the R53 is the driver's car chassis, with great steering feel and zero torque steer, and the R56 misses the boat in that it has numb steering feel and tons of torque steer, despite having more neutral chassis balance at the limit.

Ignoring the driven wheels, the only MINI I'd compare to the BRZ/FR-S would be the '06 JCW GP, and doing so puts the satisfaction bar very high indeed. That said, a GP is now 6 years old so you'll need to be really into the GP to want one, as they're gonna need some TLC to stay running well. Comparing the new '12+ Coupe is pointless as it's a driving disappointment.

[Devie]

My DD is an R53 S. Its quite interesting to hear from Ryephile that the R56 is softer. Disappointing...

I love my mini, great car to throw into corners, has a decent amount of guts, the thing I love about it the most is the supercharger whine. So cool. Love the looks. Doesn't match who I look like at all, which makes it even more awesome. People always laugh at me when I tell them I drive a mini (pretty big bastard).

Problems:
Reliability is an issue, BMW are assholes with repairs/parts, no spare tire and garages always try and persuade you to get the crappy heavy run flats. Very noisy (creaky), bumpy.

Pro's definately out weigh the problems though. The GT86 is my future car (pending price), seems to be the same sort of idea, but with some major plus'. No BMW, legendary Toyota reliability, RWD .

[djdnz]

Originally Posted by Devie

No BMW, legendary Toyota reliability, RWD .

Subaru reliability. Don't forget, Subaru engineered and manufactured the cars


Speaking of Mini's, my fiancee has one and it's a great car. It's an 09 Cooper (non-s), base model with a few options. It's had one major issue, the water pump went at about 30,000km. I have a bad feeling that the one that has replaced it is on it's way out as well, but the car is out of warranty now.

It's a blast to drive, but maintenance down the road always scares me a little given that it's a BMW product.

[miata]

Torque steer.
Bad engine reliability.


Used to own a 2007 turbo.

[Ryephile]

Just for reference:

Model Years 2002 to 2006 are the "R53" chassis = the good drivers cars
2007 to 2010 are the grenade-engined R56 torque-steering chassis
2011+ are the allegedly improved Valvetronic-engine R56, still torque steers

FWIW, the R56 is quicker on the track than the R53, stock for stock. Just goes to show that driver involvement does not equal lap times.

[86'd]

I'm currently prepping my wife's '05 MCS automatic for sale.

Even though it was her "dream car" I can't say I ever really cared for it.

It's cool looking, and it has enough power and handles great, but the engine and powerband doesn't really seem to fit the small nature of the car.

Granted it's an auto so that might have a lot to do with me not liking it, however I've always driven Hondas, so I like to wring out the engine.

To be honest parts and reliability are, well, bad coming from a Honda owner. They leak oil (usually just a little seep, or drip here and there, but more than I'm used to), they'll overheat and the suspension will wear out if you're not careful. Common problems are (at least on my MY) broken engine mount, power steering pump, coolant tank leak, radiator fan, "mushrooming" shock mounts among a few other things.

Now I have problems with my Civic, like LCA's that are gone, no A/C, but I can still drive around with no problem.

With the Honda's I've owned I was able to be reactive when it came to problems, and when something broke, it was cheap to fix.

With the Mini, you have to be proactive. You NEED to do all the required maintenance when it's required or you will pay for it later.

Honestly I'd only buy a MCS brand new with a warranty or buy it used with some money put away for maintenance.

But vs. the BRZ/FRS I'd pick the BRZ/FRS every time. For the seating position and a bit higher strung engine/powerband.

Don't get me wrong the Mini's a fun car, just not for me.

[dominican]

I would pick the FR-S over the coop. I was shopping around, and have driven an 05 cooper S, and while it was really fun, it never felt like it was solidly built. My 15 year old Prelude feels better than it does. It adds little functionality over the FR-S and it isn't RWD.

Only thing Coop may be good for is customizing, and that added bit of style.