Motortrend: 1989 BMW E30 M3 vs 2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Volkswagen GTI!

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

" Sure, there's that weight difference, but there's no way 25 pounds equals 2.15 seconds on a 2.2-mile track. What does? A better-handling car.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2RUQsO4ab"

Could have sworn I saw a lot more significant difference in weight. I still was not impressed none the less. It still only bested the ZR1 by a tenths where as in the original test, the ZR1 bested it by 2 something seconds.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Saying it's the tires is the worst excuse ever.

Tires are not an excuse.

The tires argument is not really necessary anyway. The FR-S and BRZ are already faster when driven to their potential.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Randy Pobst @ Willow Springs:

BRZ 6MT (Michelin Primacy HP) - 1:30.3
FR-S 6MT (Michelin Primacy HP) - 1:31.2
GTI DSG (Dunlop SP Sport 01 AS) - 1:31.5

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1207_high_performance_two_door_comparison/viewall.html

[EAGLE5]

GTI is a great car. Very useful. Tons of room in the backseat for a car its size. Excellent steering, brakes, and engine. Great handling. Lots of fun.

Twins are wonderful cars. Not terribly useful. Excellent steering and brakes. Obscene handling. Mountains of fun.

If you want fun and practicality, get a GTI. If you want fun period, get a twin.

As for the E30, I'd hate to have to repair it and even worse to get in an accident in it.

As for the Focus ST, not in this video of course, what crap seats and electronic design. Can't stand the Focus after driving a rental for a week.

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Could have sworn I saw a lot more significant difference in weight. I still was not impressed none the less. It still only bested the ZR1 by a tenths where as in the original test, the ZR1 bested it by 2 something seconds.

The point is, the Viper picked up 2.15 seconds without changing it's tires. Winning is winning, it still beat the ZR1 and the tires were not to blame as they were the same tires in both tests. Which is the point I was making.

EDIT: It was also the point MT was trying to make and they made the SRT president and CEO prove it for them when he was the one complaining about tires lol

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

The point is, the Viper picked up 2.15 seconds without changing it's tires. Winning is winning, it still beat the ZR1 and the tires were not to blame as they were the same tires in both tests. Which is the point I was making.

EDIT: It was also the point MT was trying to make and they made the SRT president and CEO prove it for them when he was the one complaining about tires lol

I race all the time, I know winning is winning. Doesn't mean I have to be impressed though. If anything they did Dodge a favor by letting them know what was wrong with the car.


However, that does not apply here, cause I'm sure the suspension of the Twins, the aero dynamics, the curb weight and all other factors OTHER than the tires are superior to that of a GTI.

[CBR600RR]

@Saber_TRD

the FR-S on harder tires is a perfect reason for the FR-S to be slower than the GTI

putting both cars on the same tires would be a way of equaling the playing field.

sure you could put a downforce kit on just the FR-S and it could give it the extra grip on the stock tires to allow it to beat the GTI, but then it has a down force advantage.

if you are comparing stock car versus stock car. the best way to get an equal comparison it to put them on the same make of tire.

nuff said

[Ryeong86]

Originally Posted by CBR600RR

@Saber_TRD

the FR-S on harder tires is a perfect reason for the FR-S to be slower than the GTI

putting both cars on the same tires would be a way of equaling the playing field.

sure you could put a downforce kit on just the FR-S and it could give it the extra grip on the stock tires to allow it to beat the GTI, but then it has a down force advantage.

if you are comparing stock car versus stock car. the best way to get an equal comparison it to put them on the same make of tire.

nuff said

Even so, Randy Probst still beat the GTi with the FR-S with shitty tires. Put better tires on the FR-S and the GTi just gets shit on... do we really need to see the embarrassment? We will just have to hear Emmerson even more ZzzZZZzzz

[ashtray]

New GTI to come out with 50 MORE ft lbs of torque - up to 258! Crazy.

I still much prefer rwd setup to fwd - just in the feel and the way you can steer the car through the turn with the throttle - but the FRS could use some more grunt if we're being honest. Not that it isn't a blast to drive as is - and on the slow/tight/technical canyon roads I drive, lack of power is never an issue. But it's always nice to have more.

[fatoni]

why does every comparison that the frs loses have to turn into this stupid bench racing argument?

[Ryeong86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

why does every comparison that the frs loses have to turn into this stupid bench racing argument?

It never lost... to the gti.. just bad drivers made it slower.


*popcorn*

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Ryeong86

It never lost... to the gti.. just bad drivers made it slower.


*popcorn*

then it lost. take if for what it is. im sure there are times where the frs is better. in this case, it wasnt.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

then it lost. take if for what it is. im sure there are times where the frs is better. in this case, it wasnt.

But it's not the slower car, which is what this video proclaims. That's just flat out not true.

[gily25]

I'm sure somewhere on a GTI forum there is a driver stating that he proved this article to be true.

The other night I was headed down the highway toward my favorite twisty and out of nowhere came a GTI. I accelerated to 85 for some fun in the curve and the GTI decided I wanted to race WRONG! accelerated along with me...until we hit the apex of the turn and the driver lit up the brakes while I accelerated to 88 and enjoyed my slide. They slightly caught up just in time for the next bend in the curve (long s curve) and apprently hadn't learned b/c they were on the brake again as I slipped out of the curve and slowed down for the straight-away (known cop area...probably b/c of the twisty). The GTI proceeds to floor it...I guess they didn't realize I wasn't looking to race. There weren't any owners of ancient M3s available for the drive lol.

Take from it what you will...I enjoyed my slide thought the turn and the control I had at that speed (the turn is marked for 50 mph). I'm sure the GTI thought he was the victor b/c he blew past me in the straight-away. Undoubtedly we both went away with a smile. Unless someone else is willing to pay for my car, I'm going to get the one that makes me happy.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I race all the time, I know winning is winning. Doesn't mean I have to be impressed though. If anything they did Dodge a favor by letting them know what was wrong with the car.


However, that does not apply here, cause I'm sure the suspension of the Twins, the aero dynamics, the curb weight and all other factors OTHER than the tires are superior to that of a GTI.

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

But it's not the slower car, which is what this video proclaims. That's just flat out not true.

after a day of driving, it was slower. if people could just be honest with themselves and realize that they are much closer to these guys than pobst, i think people would see the value of the gti.

look, i hate that guy as much as you all do. he is annoying and hypocritical, but that doesnt change what happened that day. you cant say that winning is winning but that doesnt apply here. its just as hypocritical as that guy is.