BRZ vs Mustang - Here is the review the haters have been waiting for.

[SuqMadiq]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

Troll? Why, because I presented a reasonable argument against your beloved BR-Z?

Grow up, people are allowed to have different opinions, and that does make them trolls.

[blofeld42]

I don't think tires are going to change the outcome. The stang has HP, and a lot of it. But that's kind of missing the point of the FRS/BRZ, which is, remember, not about lap times. If you want a faster lap get a Z.

[Jordo!]

Good review and great vid, but I hate to say it (and I am NOT a huge fan of Rustangs from any era -- especially this most recent incarnation), but the bottom line is for less money the Rustang, even with it's crappy live rear axle and terrible body roll totally kicked the ass of the BRZ in all but qualia.

But then... it aint about the numbers, right? Or so I've been told.

[Kunzite]

Originally Posted by SuqMadiq

The thing is, the Mustang surely has a lot more potential to improve in the handling department where as the BR-Z is much closer to its ideal handling point.

OK, so you are absolutely certain the Mustang's handling could be drastically improved (BS, you have no clue) while the BRZ's is pretty much perfect, and that's an advantage for the Mustang?

By the way, you're using a troll's nick, and you're trolling. What should I believe?

From the video - maybe I'm wrong, but the BRZ seems much easier to control. Nice.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by SuqMadiq

While it sounds like a lot of you think this is a clear victory for the BR-Z, I honestly believe it to be the opposite case. Here's why...

Despite the Mustang's disadvantages, higher CG, extra 700lbs or so, and most likely a softer suspension, it still manages to edge out the BR-Z on a road course. The thing is, the Mustang surely has a lot more potential to improve in the handling department where as the BR-Z is much closer to its ideal handling point. The BR-Z will still, most likely, always handle better, but it will also be limited by it's power potential.

Essentially, the I think the Mustang has a lot more potential in both improving handling and power, where as the BR-Z is going to be more limited in improving its potential in those areas.

It's far from a "win" for the BRZ -- actually, it's a spectacular loss.

Only in Bizarro world is a more expensive, better engineered yet SLOWER car the winner.

It lost by a significant degree to a poorly engineered, relatively inexpensive mint green turd.

That said, put a blower on it and it will be a track monster. Yet again, another reviewer who grimaces and makes rationalizations for its lack of torque.

I like this car for what it is -- but I will love it more for what it can be. Fanboys, take a good hard look at what you will be buying and realize it is a fairly slow car that you will want to make faster within a year of ownership.

And yes, as much as I am loathe to admit it, you can set up Mustangs to handle better than tractors nowadays.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by SuqMadiq

Troll? Why, because I presented a reasonable argument against your beloved BR-Z?

Grow up, people are allowed to have different opinions, and that does make them trolls.

most of your posts are negative, if you had some positive posts then i would believe you and wouldnt deem you as a troll as a few other have in this forum, your mind isnt open and you truly dont get the brz/frs/gt86, you dont see the potential of this car and how it is a cost effective enthusiast car compared to many...

the mustang sold 73,000 during the full year of 2011
100,000 brz/frs/gt86's will be made you cant even order one in japan and get it till February of next year.. thats 35,000 of them in japan alone... not including the rest of the world... most likly 70,000 - 80,000 will sell world wide during its full first year of production, and its a first run car, the mustang has been around since the 60's and they have been very affordable, there are plenty of people who get the concept of the brz and how well the car captures it, you apparently dont, yes you may have opinions but deep down you want this car to fail and it wont, put a smile on your face and join another forum where you can talk to others about a car that you like instead of trolling on a forum where you dont belong...
in a few threads i actually defended the mustang but i still want the frs for the pure driving experience, and ive driven both the brz and the 2011 mustang and i know what my decision is even if the better preforming car is cheaper...

Originally Posted by blofeld42

I don't think tires are going to change the outcome. The stang has HP, and a lot of it. But that's kind of missing the point of the FRS/BRZ, which is, remember, not about lap times. If you want a faster lap get a Z.

the 370z is what the mustang could have been if they focused on handling
and tires would defiantly make the time difference a lot smaller...

Originally Posted by Jordo!

It's far from a "win" for the BRZ -- actually, it's a spectacular loss.

Only in Bizarro world is a more expensive, better engineered yet SLOWER car the winner.

It lost by a significant degree to a poorly engineered, relatively inexpensive mint green turd.

That said, put a blower on it and it will be a track monster. Yet again, another reviewer who grimaces and makes rationalizations for its lack of torque.

I like this car for what it is -- but I will love it more for what it can be. Fanboys, take a good hard look at what you will be buying and realize it is a fairly slow car that you will want to make faster within a year of ownership.

And yes, as much as I am loathe to admit it, you can set up Mustangs to handle better than tractors nowadays.

i see it as a win for the brz as the mustang is a top its class, and for the brz to follow so close despite its lack of hp/tq and a set of good tires mean that its still better than a lot of cars in the same class... it may have lost to the mustang by a small amount but it will still beat the others

EDIT
lets say mustang is #1 and brz/frs is #2 out of 10 cars
me paying a "bit more" for the #2 car but that #2 car captures the driving experience better than a 80,000 dollar sports car wins my favor in buying it, hell it could be #6 or #7 and my thoughts wouldnt change
im going to buy the car, break it in, and enjoy some drifting with my mustang,240sx,350z,s2000 friends, we will all have smiles, laughs and good times, what we paid for to get our machines wont matter, its about the love for your car and respect for other car enthusiasts and their cars, maybe through a go pro, some beers, and bbq and that will be my day, nothing else matters but the smile on my face, the taste of beer, and the smell of mesquite grill and burnt rubber...

[KeepGuessing]

The question is..
Who REALLY seriously considered a v6 mustang..

YES there were comparisons based on price, but really the fact that a V6 Mustang.....
The car that is unequivocally a RWD camry with more estrogen than an SUV shouldn't really even have THAT much of a lead on this car..
Now that i mention it..The V6 Camry is probably going to outpace this car at the very same track.

The comparison of this car to a v6 mustang + track pack TRULY shows how stupid this publication is.
Next up let's compare a Pentastar V6 300c to a Corvette ...because REALLY that makes as much sense...

The Mustang is top in it's class..WHAT class is that? Underperforming sub-divisions of cars people look to for performance?

What ELSE is in the "class" the mustang is in? REALLY..What other 2 door coupe RWD cars that AREN'T really performance cars are out there besides the Camaro....Some lincoln? Some other Mercury no one looks to for thrills either?

We're comparing a car made for drivers..to a car made for female high school graduates....

The Track pack comes with......More weight than stock.. A Strut tower bar that does absolutely nothing and is there for show..

Some shocks and struts which are of arguable quality as they can still be "upgraded" via FoMoCo parts catalog pieces...Brakes which are upgraded in brand, but the dimensions are identical..


I HATE to come here and sound like i'm just a "hater" or bashing on the car for no reason..

But these reviews and comparisons are getting downright RIDICULOUS. I mean absolutely STUPID.

No one is going to cross shop these 2 cars outside of a stupid teen who doesn't know how to change his own oil, or a chick who needs something to drive to the club on weekends.

Why is no one mentioning the fact that the Mustang GT enters the door at 31,000...You know the PERFORMANCE car that people seem to be looking for costs what a "nicely equipped" BRZ/FRS will cost you...

No it's not dollar for dollar but if you're looking for a performance/fun car chances are you've got a couple extra bucks to burn.. (otherwise you're not a smart shopper what so ever)

Christ on a cracker people..


And you know what..I understand Suhq's argument complely.. The Mustang was a chassis designed for a v8 to perform with a v8..And then stripped and made economical with a underpowered v6 and squishybutt suspension...

the car was made to do anything BUT be driven like you enjoy automobiles..Meanwhile the BRZ was designed from day one to do exactly what it's being tested to do (or so it's been said)..It was designed with the engine it has in mind, it's got the low CoG and all the other frill nonsense the mustang doesn't benefit from..yet it's still was ousted on it's "home turf"

[Jordo!]

Folks, please stop telling yourselves it "won".

If someone wants to interpret this as an obvious victory of power over handling, and therefore inconsequential, given the aim of the FRS/BRZ from its inception -- fine.

Seriously. I saw the video of the FRS and BRZ vs. the MX5 and it won by a .1 to .2 seconds. That is so close, we can barely call it a win -- it's more like a draw considering we have to consider three different drivers were in the mix.

Same driver, same track -- the BRZ was slaughtered by an ungainly tractor, thanks mainly to the better power to weight ratio. If you care about that sort of thing, it's a depressing, if unsurprising, outcome.

Tak Fujiwara would have lost -- the precise scalpel was simply outdone by the meat cleaver. End of story.

On that note, I'd still rather own a BRZ, and if I felt it needed more power (which I very much do) I'd just plan on saving up to make that happen.

I would not, however, congratulate myself on having a car that is well slower in every possible way (including around corners!?!) than a V6 Mustang...

[SuqMadiq]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

OK, so you are absolutely certain the Mustang's handling could be drastically improved (BS, you have no clue) while the BRZ's is pretty much perfect, and that's an advantage for the Mustang?

By the way, you're using a troll's nick, and you're trolling. What should I believe?

From the video - maybe I'm wrong, but the BRZ seems much easier to control. Nice.

I do know it can be drastically improved because, wait for it... its been out for several years now and it's proven. Heck, with just the mods the Boss 302 has, the Mustang is capable of pulling over 1 g on the skidpad. The V6 would probably do even better as it has less weight up front. Surely, it can achieve better handling.

Now, what I was saying about the BR-Z was actually a compliment, though it does IMO affect what can be done to improve it. The BR-Z clearly has better handling, and that's the primary reason why it came close to running the same lap times as the Mustang. Because, the BR-Z was designed around its handling capabilities, I honestly believe there will be less room for improvement than what you would find in the Mustang. Don't take this as the Mustang will handle better in the long run. My point is all about the potential improvement in handling, not overall which is better.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by KeepGuessing

The question is..

1: Who REALLY seriously considered a v6 mustang..

YES there were comparisons based on price, but really the fact that a V6 Mustang.....

The car that is unequivocally a RWD camry with more estrogen than an SUV shouldn't really even have THAT much of a lead on this car..

Now that i mention it..The V6 Camry is probably going to outpace this car at the very same track..

2: The comparison of this car to a v6 mustang + track pack TRULY shows how stupid this publication is.

Next up let's compare a Pentastar V6 300c to a Corvette ...because REALLY that makes as much sense...

Well... right.

But it's really not that stupid from the standpoint of the average consumer. To the average consumer, any sporty car within the same price range is going to be considered and potentially cross shopped.

I'd say that if anything, this comparison is proof positive that the FRS/BRZ is NOT about the numbers -- you are paying for a car that makes you feel a certain way (other than fast -- ha ha ha).

Eh, as I said from day one -- boost it and it will be a superstar. Otherwise, it's set for an epee duel with a Miata.

[KeepGuessing]

The AVG consumer wouldn't look at the SMALL list of "sporty cars" when looking for "sporty cars" though..

If we're considering the AVG consumer to be dumb enough to shop for a v6 mustang..Then it's quite obvious the Avg consumer would also think ANY car that has "sleek design ques" would be a sporty car...

Any car that LOOKS fast would be a sporty car.
Any car with colored stitch and a manual gearbox would be a "Sporty car" to the consumer who looks at a v6 mustang for thrills..

If this were the case then NEITHER of these cars are anywhere CLOSE to the top of that list because then you have to thrown in a bunch of intangible variables that can appear just because of something as simple as " hyundai decided to restyle their c-pillar and people think it's superfast now."


However if you're trying to move away from the "endless variables" of "imaginary consumer Group A" then the only path to stray to would be people who know a v6 mustang is a joke of a car and to compare it to a car which is considered a sports car or is taken seriously in the "sports car world" is downright foolish.

[RearDrive]

Lol, oh man humans are a funny bunch. Always arguing and puffing up ego's. Entertaining to say the least hahaha! At the end of the day we only have our opinions so let's all enjoy the review and not argue over trivial things like a bunch of five year olds.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by SuqMadiq

I do know it can be drastically improved because, wait for it... its been out for several years now and it's proven. Heck, with just the mods the Boss 302 has, the Mustang is capable of pulling over 1 g on the skidpad. The V6 would probably do even better as it has less weight up front. Surely, it can achieve better handling.

Now, what I was saying about the BR-Z was actually a compliment, though it does IMO affect what can be done to improve it. The BR-Z clearly has better handling, and that's the primary reason why it came close to running the same lap times as the Mustang. Because, the BR-Z was designed around its handling capabilities, I honestly believe there will be less room for improvement than what you would find in the Mustang. Don't take this as the Mustang will handle better in the long run. My point is all about the potential improvement in handling, not overall which is better.

better tires alone on the mustang moved the 0-60 time from 6.2 seconds to 5.1, and improved it handling from .88g lateral to .93 lateral

and that was going from tires that were comparable to brz's tires to almost race spec tires, open your mind, that 1.2 seconds the brz was slower than the mustang around willow can be sucked up by tires alone...

in all of what i say all you see it "brz is better than mustang" and you respond with "no way!!!!" im just saying the brz could match the mustang's time around this particular track with a tire upgrade, long track the brz wouldnt have a chance against the mustang

ok and heres hard facts

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk3vGY7-og8"]BRZvs86vsRoadster BATTLE - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGIVd5A1cgo&list=UU0KVWe1Cgbuu2vazv4o--JA&index=1&feature=plcp"]TRD86vsHKS86(AT)vs86(TireChange 18inchNEOVA) BATTEL - YouTube[/ame]

the gt86 posted a 1:46:081 with stock tires and a 1:43:439 with race tires thats a 2.642 seconds difference from tires alone, the track is about 13 seconds longer than the streets of willow, both tracks are comparable in how technical they are...

[serialk11r]

I don't know why people need to bash one car or the other. Everyone has a different idea of what they want in a car, maybe the Mustang isn't right for you but it doesn't mean it's not a good car for other people. Yes, armchair racers are other people, who are entitled to think what they want and like what they like. That's why there's product differentiation, free market, consumer choice, and if you don't think the car is perfect and you really want to change that, you can modify the car yourself.

The Mustang is certainly more of a brute force car, no one is denying that. They wear very sticky tires to get as much grip as possible knowing the limitations of their suspension setup, and has a massive engine to produce a lot of power for very cheap. That doesn't mean it doesn't represent good value. The design philosophy was to get the customer a lot of bang for the buck, and the fact that they're able to make a car with such great value should be respected, even if you don't like the car.