Has anybody ever "returned" a car?

[Eurasianman]

Carfax is only as good as the shops that properly report work done on the vehicle. My 2010 Cobalt SS turbocharged (bought it brand new) had over 50 pages of work that had been done on it at the dealership. Guess what, pretty much none of it showed up on the Carfax, but perhaps a few things.

Furthermore, there were physical and mechanical defects with the vehicle, but when I signed the papers for the car, it said I would pursue arbitration and not take them to court. Therefore, no way for me to get them to buy the car back unless I won the arbitration (which of course, I did not).

TL;DR: Carfax is a joke and when you buy a car, I believe in the paper work, it says that the dealer will work with you and can take them to arbitration, not court. Good luck with that. I wasted 6 months and got NO WHERE!

Bottom line: I trust CARFAX about as much as the a car salesman... ZERO! I, of course, ended up traded in the Cobalt for the BRZ. Best.Day.Of.My.Life!

OP: Good luck.

[Jesse36m3]

Originally Posted by was385

Go back to them. As a car dealer, they are held to a much higher standard than if you had bought this from an individual. If they refuse, I would go get a lawyer.

I'm going back tomorrow. I just want to try and build a case first before I go in there guns blazing. Thanks.

Originally Posted by CoupedUpSubie

That being said, you signed the paperwork before they fulfilled what you asked. You kind of screwed yourself there. At the same time they should have disclosed that the car had been damaged, you may have a winnable fight on your hands.

I know, I'm a dumbass. I was running around like crazy for work that week and was just so excited to get into the car finally that I completely overlooked it.

Originally Posted by robwbright

Lawyer and former car salesman here... Try to work it out with them... if you're ok with the car, but upset about the non-disclosure, I'd suggest trying to negotiate a percentage partial refund. If they won't work with you or you want to return the car, then contact an attorney and discuss options. I'd think you could get a consult and some good info for $100-$200. I doubt they'll do anything about it without some legal action. That said, if your state has a consumer sales practices act or equivalent, the dealer might have violated it. If the dealer did violate it, then the consumer sales practices act in some states (including both I practice in) would - if you win the court case - result in them having to pay your attorney fees and triple the damages that you were awarded.

FYI, I bought my new '13 Limited in early December for $27,100 on a $29,000 sticker. That seems to be a rather common price point for new ones. There's apparently about $2,000 markup on the front side of these cars.

In my experience, if a dealer is asking anywhere in the $20,000 to $25,000 range for a used car, they almost certainly have $4,000 markup. If they're asking $25,000, you should be able to buy it for $23,000 without much trouble at all, and $22,000 is probably obtainable with a bit of negotiation.

I appreciate the advice, thank you.

Originally Posted by Turbo95eg6

For 23K, that's a steal... Maybe the dealer priced it low because of the history?

Pics of the paint? So you're saying the suspension components were replaced as well?

I'll try to get some pictures up tomorrow. So far I'm seeing a repaint and body work on the rear quarter, new fender liner, different markings on the strut, missing clips, masking tape under the rear bumper, just a shitty patch up job to be honest.

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Right rear impact with a stationary object? Do you think they backed into something, or Initial D'd it into a light post? If the latter, there may be more undisclosed damage to the suspension, axle, or diff that could bite you in the ass later.

haha, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous owner slid it into something. Also, that's exactly what I'm worried about. I don't trust anyone, really.

Originally Posted by regal

I think you may be over reacting. First its not a salvage title. Second body shops these days are good, the paint they use is probably better than the factory paint in many cases.


I put 80k miles on a Civic EX that I knowling bought with a salvage title, most dependable car I ever owned.


If its straight and drives right. With used cars the onus is on you to look it over, have a mechanic check it, etc. All used car salesmen lie, its their job. Calling a lawyer is ridiculous IMO. A slight mismatched paint, think about how long it took you to find it, probably no one else will ever notice.


Perhaps there are other issues you dislike, like maybe the engine ?

Relax. The engine is just fine. I'm more than happy with the car; just not satisfied with the previous repair.

Originally Posted by regal

I just think people put to much into carfax. I'll take a car that's been in an accident any day over one that never had its oil changed.

I am by no means relying on Carfax; but practically a brand new car should show recent/relevant information. I know that a ton of things are never reported. My previous car, coming from a bmw, was in three accidents. None of which were my fault. I collected the money and had it fixed at a shop I trusted. Never reported to insurance or Carfax.

[Akari]

I'm curious to hear how that goes.

To be honest I don't know that the dealership owes you anything. You bought a used car for less than the price of a new one, it's a risk you take when buying anything used.

Look over all your documentation to see if there is anything in writing about it not having been in an accident or repair work being the same quality as factory.

[eyedeez]

Originally Posted by Marchy

i crashed my last car in a ditch, it was totaled out. I found it at a dealer a couple months later, they had the car fax and it only showed that i was diligent in getting oil changes and that they replaced the rear quarter panel. Nothing about the suspension damage, missing rear sway bar, improperly installed rear motor mount, missing horn, incorrect and horribly installed side skirt or the rocks between the tire and rim on the back passenger wheel.

they even had a 150 point inspection from a local mechanic shop down the road stating the car was in great condition.

Sadly the new owner was unable to return it. Luckily he did find the forum i'm on and with my help at identifying what is wrong is slowly fixing it.

Good luck OP.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu! Kudos for helping the owner out though.

[Eurasianman]

Originally Posted by Marchy

i crashed my last car in a ditch, it was totaled out. I found it at a dealer a couple months later, they had the car fax and it only showed that i was diligent in getting oil changes and that they replaced the rear quarter panel. Nothing about the suspension damage, missing rear sway bar, improperly installed rear motor mount, missing horn, incorrect and horribly installed side skirt or the rocks between the tire and rim on the back passenger wheel.

they even had a 150 point inspection from a local mechanic shop down the road stating the car was in great condition.

Sadly the new owner was unable to return it. Luckily he did find the forum i'm on and with my help at identifying what is wrong is slowly fixing it.

Good luck OP.

Glad to see it did not just happen to me then (about the dealer not reporting all the work done and it not showing up on the Carfax). I was in the same shoes as you. I tried to help the guy who bought my old Cobalt, but in the end, as I said previously, I honestly think the car is curse. Oh well, he has moved on now

[was385]

Originally Posted by regal

I think you may be over reacting. First its not a salvage title. Second body shops these days are good, the paint they use is probably better than the factory paint in many cases.


I put 80k miles on a Civic EX that I knowling bought with a salvage title, most dependable car I ever owned.


If its straight and drives right. With used cars the onus is on you to look it over, have a mechanic check it, etc. All used car salesmen lie, its their job. Calling a lawyer is ridiculous IMO. A slight mismatched paint, think about how long it took you to find it, probably no one else will ever notice.


Perhaps there are other issues you dislike, like maybe the engine ?

If they're selling a car as clean and they know it's not (and put a clean carfax on their website), that sounds an awful lot like fraud to me. In a private sale, the onus is definitely on the buyer, however merchants like dealerships are generally held to a higher standard.

And even if the paint is of better quality, if it isn't blended correctly, it's still an inferior product. Here's the real question. If you bought that civic from a dealer after being led to believe it was clean and then found out that it had previously been in an accident, would you have been happy at first? Good it worked out for you, but the OP has a reason to be pissed.

[AznBRZer]

Originally Posted by Tank

I'm in a similar situation.. The carfax was clean, but I later found the car to have an odd tire (1 sumitomo and 3 stock michelins), missing clips from both the rear fender liners (the rear bumper has been off) and you can see weird stuff going on with the paint on the right rear quarter panel. Not sure what I can do about it.. Bought the car 3 weeks ago.

This, I would actually get addressed by the dealer. Having different tires can cause problems because of different tread in certain situations. Getting new clips to secure the bumper shouldn't be an issue either, but the paint issue might be harder to fix.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Marchy

i crashed my last car in a ditch, it was totaled out. I found it at a dealer a couple months later, they had the car fax and it only showed that i was diligent in getting oil changes and that they replaced the rear quarter panel. .

It must be a state to state thing, in PA if you total a car it permanently carries a salvage title forever.


Are people buying used cars and looking at the carfax but not the title?

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Prog

You had a legitimate reason, though. It sounds like OP doesn't. I would be surprised if there was a law "protecting" buyer ignorance.

If there was a compression problem in the engine, shoddy transmission, or the suspension was showing signs of serious pre-existing damage, it still might be caveat empor, but he'd have a better case for getting $$ back from the dealership b/c the car would be showing signs of not being safe or not running correctly.

But if she drives straight but shows signs of previous imperfect repair (like mismatched paint and missing clips) but otherwise checks out, then basically it is a case of "customer whining" in the eyes of taking legal action.

Was the dealership ethically and morally duty bound to disclose what the OP found? Yes. Are they legally bound to make reparations after he signed all the paperwork? For this level of damage, probably not.

OP, instead of hiring a lawyer, perhaps use that $$ to pay a GOOD paint and body shop to properly strip, repaint, and blend the affected area, and go and spend about a sawbuck or two getting those clips from a dealership's parts department.

True the dealership was less than honest. However, you're the owner of the car now and the damage isn't (from what you've told us) severe and repairable. Why not simply say "I screwed up. I learned my lesson and now I'll put the money I could otherwise give to a lawyer to fix the problem myself."

Not saying you aren't, but isn't it better to take personal responsibility in fixing the issue and learning the lesson instead of demanding the dealership fix things? If this were a safety or reliability issue, then yes! B/c then it would have been lying about it's CPO status. I doubt CPOs are required to look absolutely perfect, but rather be in good repair and reliably-serviceable condition. Mismatched paint due to improper blending doesn't fall into the "can't be a CPO vehicle" category. Damaged suspension or loss of compression on the engine, however, would put it into that category.

Lesson to be learned: for a car this new and with this low a production # per year, buy new. After fixing this or having hired a lawyer only to find out there's hardly anything he can do to get some money back for you, you'll have spent as much as a new Limited. It's just that one way (getting it repainted and properly blended, as well as body and suspension inspected) gets you the car into the condition you wanted it in, whereas the other way simply leaves you poorer with the attorney apologizing he couldn't do more for you and that here's your bill for his services.

[Incursion]

I got a new 2013 manual transmission Limited in Dec. for $24,500 drive out.

[Turbo95eg6]

Originally Posted by Incursion

I got a new 2013 manual transmission Limited in Dec. for $24,500 drive out.

Cool story bro

[lionbacker54]

Originally Posted by was385

If they're selling a car as clean and they know it's not (and put a clean carfax on their website), that sounds an awful lot like fraud to me. In a private sale, the onus is definitely on the buyer, however merchants like dealerships are generally held to a higher standard.

And even if the paint is of better quality, if it isn't blended correctly, it's still an inferior product. Here's the real question. If you bought that civic from a dealer after being led to believe it was clean and then found out that it had previously been in an accident, would you have been happy at first? Good it worked out for you, but the OP has a reason to be pissed.

agree. unless they gave you a different carfax report prior to sale, and you just didn't look at it, this is fraud. you should not have any problems returning the car if you want

[ntron1]

So what happened when you went back OP??

[BadMoon]

Originally Posted by ntron1

So what happened when you went back OP??

Was wondering that myself.