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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 03-27-2018, 08:51 AM   #379
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This thread should be called the FI fearmongering/discouragement facts lol
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:11 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Deep Six View Post
Amazing how some motors just keep on chugging under very harsh conditions. I now have blown motor #2 thanks to a rocker arm failure. This was a fresh block, forged rods and pistons, 11.5 :1 , JRSC 90mm pulley with the rev limiter set at 7K, all the fuel upgrades, fresh 5w30 Castrol Syntech and JR oil cooler. Motor was built local in Orlando by well respected shop and I watched the assembly so I know what went in. Tuning was specifically modified for the 90mm pulley by again a very well respected local tuner. The passenger side head is total carnage with a hole in the cover and the rod from cylinder #1 busted through the top of the block. This happened at Sebring approaching the hairpin.
Pretty much made up my mind that I will be going with an LS swap next as I can't see rolling the dice with another FA20.


That's not the typical rocker failure I've seen. It appears your rocker arm actually just broke in half and then ejected itself. Never seen that before. I've heard more of the rocker arms having a manufacturing intolerance that allows them to walk off the roller pin and then get ejected.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:12 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by ATL BRZ View Post
That's not the typical rocker failure I've seen. It appears your rocker arm actually just broke in half and then ejected itself. Never seen that before. I've heard more of the rocker arms having a manufacturing intolerance that allows them to walk off the roller pin and then get ejected.
Have heard this as well.

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Old 03-27-2018, 12:16 PM   #382
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INSANE necro thread revival. I wonder how much our understanding of this has improved? My ostentatious logic says that a large contributor to this is from load on the rods. Turbo tends to pile on low end load quickly, as torque comes in much harder and faster than on most supercharger types people are running on this platform. Also, people who put load on at low RPM (lugging the engine WOT at 2,000RPM) are going to stress the rods a lot more than those who are softer with their input.

Just wanted to open this up for discussion again, as after reading this thread, I feel more success and more failure has been had. Any good experiment's data has a large test pool, right? Too bad we have no control..
I blew my motor on a supercharger.... lol snapped a rod right in half. it's documented in my build in case you are curious. I started to look into something called "compressor efficiency" and looking at compressor charts to determine things I wanted. Basically what I found was that the rotrex c38 i had needed to push more PSI than the turbo I just bought that will run at a lower PSI to obtain the same amount of power.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:18 PM   #383
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I've been daily driving this the past month, and have put 18 track days on it since it's been turboed last November.

Still on the stock engine.
how many tune revisions did the car receive to get it to where it's at now?
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:20 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by pgranberg11 View Post
I blew my motor on a supercharger.... lol snapped a rod right in half. it's documented in my build in case you are curious. I started to look into something called "compressor efficiency" and looking at compressor charts to determine things I wanted. Basically what I found was that the rotrex c38 i had needed to push more PSI than the turbo I just bought that will run at a lower PSI to obtain the same amount of power.

do you know how much power you had approximatively when you broke the rod?
Cosworth says they tested the stock connecting rods and found 280hp is the maximum safe power, after that it s just lottery
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:28 PM   #385
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do you know how much power you had approximatively when you broke the rod?
Cosworth says they tested the stock connecting rods and found 280hp is the maximum safe power, after that it s just lottery
i was running the standard kraftwerks c38 standard pulley setup with flex fuel mostly running e75+. I never put it on a dyno, but if I could guess probably close to around 300whp. I should also add, I blew up at the track. I drove the car as a daily every day and drove it at the track. I always changed my oil specifically for track days, and then changed the track oil out for fresh oil. It was supercharged for a good 2 years 20k+ miles supercharged? when I did track it, it was over a weekend. probably 10+ 20 minute track sessions. 5 on saturday and 5 on sunday, sometimes a few on friday. So the car was beat on heavily for the entire weekend and then went back to be a daily. The track events were every other month or when i could afford it to put it into perspective. so I can't be too mad lol. It was fun while it lasted, but I sold the supercharger kit and am prepping for turbo.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:36 PM   #386
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Cosworth talked about 280hp , not whp, so you were well over the safe limit... and you got bad luck at the lottery eventually : ) oil doesnt count so much at this I think, the problem is the too much torque in a short time that could bend and breaks the rods easily
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:51 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Deep Six View Post
Amazing how some motors just keep on chugging under very harsh conditions. I now have blown motor #2 thanks to a rocker arm failure. This was a fresh block, forged rods and pistons, 11.5 :1 , JRSC 90mm pulley with the rev limiter set at 7K, all the fuel upgrades, fresh 5w30 Castrol Syntech and JR oil cooler. Motor was built local in Orlando by well respected shop and I watched the assembly so I know what went in. Tuning was specifically modified for the 90mm pulley by again a very well respected local tuner. The passenger side head is total carnage with a hole in the cover and the rod from cylinder #1 busted through the top of the block. This happened at Sebring approaching the hairpin.
Pretty much made up my mind that I will be going with an LS swap next as I can't see rolling the dice with another FA20.
The rocker arms are indeed the weakest point of the motor

We've seen them fail, even when hand picked for balance and internal structure (yes, we go that extreme)
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:53 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by pgranberg11 View Post
how many tune revisions did the car receive to get it to where it's at now?
The actual power number? Not many. Most of the dyno tuning time at @DeliciousTuning was spent on drivability and efficiency, rather than looking for power. The top line is only 10.5 psi at peak output with a GReddy turbo T518Z turbo kit. This is on a stock exhaust and stock front pipe too.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:56 PM   #389
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The actual power number? Not many. Most of the dyno tuning time at @DeliciousTuning was spent on drivability and efficiency, rather than looking for power. The top line is only 10.5 psi at peak output with a GReddy turbo T518Z turbo kit.
sorry, I may have asked a poorly worded question.

I meant to ask how many times did the tune have to be revised/ecu needed to be reflashed to be where it's at? (power numbers I don't really care about lol) I don't want to beat on a dead horse, but I feel like just as much as the owner is responsible for how they drive it, the tune also plays a key role in durability as well.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:11 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by tomm.brz View Post
Cosworth talked about 280hp , not whp, so you were well over the safe limit... and you got bad luck at the lottery eventually : ) oil doesnt count so much at this I think, the problem is the too much torque in a short time that could bend and breaks the rods easily
yea oh totally. I was just sharing my experience and being as detailed as possible so when people do come to this thread there's actually detailed, MAYBE valuable information in here.... lol. I had to read through this whole thread and I was laughing so hard when people were arguing with CSG and Vit especially... like really? but all good.. Just looking to contribute my experience.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:18 PM   #391
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sorry, I may have asked a poorly worded question.

I meant to ask how many times did the tune have to be revised/ecu needed to be reflashed to be where it's at? (power numbers I don't really care about lol) I don't want to beat on a dead horse, but I feel like just as much as the owner is responsible for how they drive it, the tune also plays a key role in durability as well.
The base map start with has tens of thousands of revisions. On my specific car? I'm not sure but I would guess less than 50, with maybe 10 of them being to optimize output, if that. My car as a whole has a high flash count due to the number of changes made over the course of my ownership.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:46 AM   #392
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I've been daily driving e85 at this power level for 4 years and over 100k miles now. Vortech 3.48 pulley at like 8.5 psi max. High hp low torque. The blower doesn't come alive until 4k rpm, but if i'm banging through gears, I don't see below 4k. The stress on the motor down low is not that big of a difference than stock. Everyone scoffs at the vortech's torque when in reality it's the SC kit that makes the highest hp with the lowest boost pressure.
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