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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 06-13-2013, 05:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ATL BRZ View Post

My BRZ reminds me of my first 944S in many ways. Loves to be revved out, makes up for a lack of power in handling and braking performance, and has great looks! The BRZ is WAAAAAY easier to work on, though. Hans and Frans designed nearly everything on the 944's to be a pain in the ass.

Nice cars, amazing you sold the first one for that much more than you paid, rare and awesome to have a car go up in value as you drive it.

Take a closer look under the hood of your BRZ Look how close the cylinder heads are to the unibody rails. Now think about how much harder it will be to change those head gaskets than an I-4 like the 944. Basically to do it right the engine has to come out. The service manual even says to lift the engine to just remove spark plugs at 60k.

When I first got home and looked over my FR-S I just had flashbacks to working on 80's German cars, it is so specialized and foreign, a lot like the German cars were.

I would say the 924/944 Porsches are much easier to work on than the FRS/BRZ when something goes wrong. Even the timing chains on the FA20 are going to be a major job. Not only that but with DI and 4 camshafts there is a lot that can go wrong with the FA20, its much more complex than even the turbo 944. So if the 80's Porche's had a reputation for being difficult to work on the twins have a that in common as well as the performance/handling !
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:10 AM   #30
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Its a good comparison, I think the twins have may have a little more in common with the Porsche 924. The 924 was sort of a collaboration with VW and built in a VW plant. Similar how this is Toyota built by Subaru. Also the 924 featured a fairly bland engine due to emmisions/fuel economy, same as the Twin's FA20 lacking displacement so Toyota can meet 2015 CO emmisions. .
Power to weight ratios are much closer to 944S and S2 than the 924, so not sure I agree with the "bland" engine comment (100bhp/litre is a great effort from a NA engine, the 4cylinder Porsche engines didn't come near that without forced induction) though other points re collaboration are well made
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:51 AM   #31
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I had a ton of fun in my 89 na but it was the most unreliable car I've owned...I beat the shit out of it but still... Head gasket, clutch, rear suspension, master cyl for clutch, and the final killer was when the final drive exploded.


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Old 06-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #32
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Nice cars, amazing you sold the first one for that much more than you paid, rare and awesome to have a car go up in value as you drive it.

Take a closer look under the hood of your BRZ Look how close the cylinder heads are to the unibody rails. Now think about how much harder it will be to change those head gaskets than an I-4 like the 944. Basically to do it right the engine has to come out. The service manual even says to lift the engine to just remove spark plugs at 60k.

When I first got home and looked over my FR-S I just had flashbacks to working on 80's German cars, it is so specialized and foreign, a lot like the German cars were.

I would say the 924/944 Porsches are much easier to work on than the FRS/BRZ when something goes wrong. Even the timing chains on the FA20 are going to be a major job. Not only that but with DI and 4 camshafts there is a lot that can go wrong with the FA20, its much more complex than even the turbo 944. So if the 80's Porche's had a reputation for being difficult to work on the twins have a that in common as well as the performance/handling !
I guess you're right. At first glance the FA20 seems like the accessories like the alternator and AC compressor and drive belt are easier to get to than on the 944's. There is more room in the engine bay but when I think about major jobs like head gaskets, plugs, timing chains, I see what you're saying....

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Power to weight ratios are much closer to 944S and S2 than the 924, so not sure I agree with the "bland" engine comment (100bhp/litre is a great effort from a NA engine, the 4cylinder Porsche engines didn't come near that without forced induction) though other points re collaboration are well made
I've driven 3 or 4 944S2's, one of which is a full blown race car, and the 3 liter has way more torque off the line than the FA20 does despite only making about 210hp at the flywheel. There is no replacement for displacement
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:02 AM   #33
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Power to weight ratios are much closer to 944S and S2 than the 924, so not sure I agree with the "bland" engine comment (100bhp/litre is a great effort from a NA engine, the 4cylinder Porsche engines didn't come near that without forced induction) though other points re collaboration are well made

Yes you are right, as my "mid-life" crisis car your post made me chuckle a little knowing that I finally own a car that is very very comparable to my teenage fantansy of buying a new 944S If I didn't work 60+ hours a week I would have had no problem buying a used 944S and keeping up with water pumps/ timing belts, rebuilding the suspension etc. Bought the FR-S instead for Toyotas reputation (my other Toyota model has several documented 500k mile examples on the road.)
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #34
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I have a buddy with 2 944s. So far we have replaced:

Oil Pan Gasket
Clutch Master
Clutch Slave

None of those jobs were fun and both are still leaking quite a bit of oil. I also love that you can't get an oil filter for them from your local auto parts stores. He bought them with the intention to track them, and he has only made one track weekend so far and had to keep adding oil. I told him to buy a BMW E30 like I have where everything is much easier to do when compared to the 944. If you really want an 80s car to replicate the BRZ/FR-S then the BMW E30 is the way to go.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:12 AM   #35
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I have a buddy with 2 944s. So far we have replaced:

Oil Pan Gasket
Clutch Master
Clutch Slave

None of those jobs were fun and both are still leaking quite a bit of oil. I also love that you can't get an oil filter for them from your local auto parts stores. He bought them with the intention to track them, and he has only made one track weekend so far and had to keep adding oil. I told him to buy a BMW E30 like I have where everything is much easier to do when compared to the 944. If you really want an 80s car to replicate the BRZ/FR-S then the BMW E30 is the way to go.
My 70 year old father still has an 88 325is, garage kept but summer driven. Looks like new and the only issue it ever has had was converting it to the new " R123a Freon." Beautiful car, I remember begging him to buy the E30 M3 at the time but he said the I-6 cylinder is better tan the M3's 4 cylinder, lol. The FR-S dimensions, weight, and handling are pretty similar. The E30 has better torque but the FR-S handles better with the low cog and has better top end hp. Very similar drivers cars.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:49 PM   #36
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Any new owners to a 944? Friend is looking at one. Has a charger and a BRZ. Wants a tad more power stock.

How do they compare in track vs FR-S?
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:41 PM   #37
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Can't justify one when you can get a 240sx w/ an SR20DET for similar money. Similar handling and balance, easier to make power, more aftermarket parts available.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:33 AM   #38
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Was one of the most beautiful Porsches built. As a kid both my doctor and dentist had one. They were always in competition. I love the 944
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Old 04-03-2016, 11:59 PM   #39
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I had both the 924 and 944. My first two cars.
I would say that they are in the same category as the GT86. Just as rewarding to drive.
But the GT86 are alot easier to handle on the edge.

Here in Sweden the 944 is a popular track-day car.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:17 AM   #40
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I owned my 944 around 14 years ago, so the pics are not "high res" but I had an IFC body kit (front/rear/sides/hatch) and had the paint updated from the old Zermatt Silver to Artic Silver (like on the boxsters when they came out).

The dreaded timing/water pump bit me - due to age, not mileage.

I can still remember the smell of the 944 interiors (I liked it). The way I can explain ownership to someone - it's the best, and worst thing that can happen to you all at once. Be prepared to spend about $1500 or so per year to keep it on the road. If something doesn't break or go bad this year, you WILL get a bill for something the following year.

The "new" thing when I got my car, were people doing the Renegade Hybrid V8 motor swaps.

The best color was the deep burgundy.

Last thing - you WILL need a 2nd car. Having a AAA membership with towing is also recommended.



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Old 04-07-2016, 03:13 PM   #41
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I call absolute bullshit on this...

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Those turbos are quick. My coworker's stock 944 turbo is faster than my FBM turbo'd FRS--granted I don't believe it's running quite right.
There's no way in hell, that a stock 944 turbo is faster than a turbo twin.

It would be hard pressed to be faster than a N/A twin on E85...

The either weigh 200 lbs more at 220 bhp or 400+ more with 250 bhp

so he's modded if he's faster for sho...

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Old 04-07-2016, 10:52 PM   #42
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I also love that you can't get an oil filter for them from your local auto parts stores.
Can't he install a remote oil filter kit and use "normal" (i.e., cheap and readily available) filters?
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