Motor Trend, August issue.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Basically, yeah. You have Compact or Mid-size trucks, full-size trucks, and heavy duty trucks. I've always mentally classified trucks in three different size categories, I guess because some trucks just seem small. But after looking at their real world dimensions there's really just two different sized trucks. Trucks @ or shorter than 190-inches, and trucks @ or longer than 200-inches (regular bed/regular cab configurations).

Scion needs to revive the coolness that was the 85 Toyota Xtracab pickup with a turbocharged 4cylinder.



How cool is that?

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Cosign.

Cept use a better Turbo. That 22RET was a cool motor though. Had some nice features. Something like that with a Solid Front Axle would fly off the shelves. BUT would it pass Safety tests?

you guys are nuts. like i said, besides for work, who would you market this thing to? nascar truck series fans? cmon...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by madfast

you guys are nuts. like i said, besides for work, who would you market this thing to? nascar truck series fans? cmon...

Have you ever owned a truck?

If you have, should know how instantly popular you become with all your acquaintances that need stuff moved, or picked up, etc... when you have one.

If you haven't, your opinion doesn't carry too much weight.

For the record I've owned a Chevy 3/4 ton 2WD. Epic utility vehicle.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Have you ever owned a truck?

If you have, should know how instantly popular you become with all your acquaintances that need stuff moved, or picked up, etc... when you have one.

If you haven't, your opinion doesn't carry too much weight.

For the record I've owned a Chevy 3/4 ton 2WD. Epic utility vehicle.

again, that's work. im not arguing the worthiness of a pickup bed for moving/carrying shit. im arguing that there is NO place in the market for a scion pickup. scion is a youth oriented, trendy brand. since when was moving your friends couch trendy?

pickups were made to carry shit. if you daily drive a pickup with nothing in the back, waiting for your friend to move so you can save the day with your utility vehicle... im sorry. you do NOT represent the average person. the average person buys a chevy cruze to take their wife, kids, and dog to buy groceries and clothes at the mall....

stylish scion 2dr awd crossover > scion compact pickup...

oh and for the record i've never owned a truck. if you think that somehow invalidates the logic of my argument then so be it...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by madfast

again, that's work. im not arguing the worthiness of a pickup bed for moving/carrying shit. im arguing that there is NO place in the market for a scion pickup. scion is a youth oriented, trendy brand. since when was moving your friends couch trendy?

pickups were made to carry shit. if you daily drive a pickup with nothing in the back, waiting for your friend to move so you can save the day with your utility vehicle... im sorry. you do NOT represent the average person. the average person buys a chevy cruze to take their wife, kids, and dog to buy groceries and clothes at the mall....

stylish scion 2dr awd crossover > scion compact pickup...

oh and for the record i've never owned a truck. if you think that somehow invalidates the logic of my argument then so be it...

F-series truck was the best-selling vehicle in North America for a reason.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by madfast

you are obviously in the minority. the regular joe wouldnt buy a pickup truck to haul kids and groceries around...

how is a suv/crossover better? well for one theres a cargo area instead of a bed. i dunno how many people want to put their stuff in a dirty ass pickup bed with dirt, dust, leaves and bird poo all over it... and do we need to talk about refinement...?

no it wouldnt be too expensive. the RAV4 awd starts at 24k. a smaller scion suv could easily match that pretty well equipped. make it stylish, like all scions, and there you go...
for reference: the Mitsu Outlander sport AWD starts at 23k, and nissan juke awd starts at 21k. the juke, if its styling wasnt so polarizing, would be a great little crossover... something i think scion should do seeing as most of their designs are hatches. lift them up a bit and add awd. done deal.

I don't know about you, but my Truck gets garaged, and even when it's parked outside it's not like everything flies over just to crap in it. The limitations of an SUV are it's height too. You get a Big Screen TV that won't fit in the back of an SUV what are you gonna do? Get a truck.

Seriously what are you hauling that has to be covered at all times? What about dirty stuff you don't want leaving grease/dirt/oil all over your carpet?

How many Rav4's have you seen actually listed at that price new? Most start at $30K+. Adding 4WD usually tacks on $4-$5K.

That's kinda what I was saying. They already have an almost SUV like body. But like I said, extra cost. Will people be willing to pay it?

Originally Posted by Dimman

There is a market for a small, real pickup with a bed. In Vancouver you may be aware of all the JDM imports here, right? Mostly we pay attention to the Skylines, Aristos, Chasers and such, but a TON of people are importing things like the Subaru Sambar, Honda Acty and similar micro-pickups. They are like little kei-class vans with a pickup or flatdeck bed.



I think that a Toyota truck (normal one, not like the weirdos above^) sized like the old one from the 80's or even a touch smaller, would sell very well, as either a Toyota or Scion. Scion could try to go for a mini-truck revival, whereas as a Toyota it would appeal to budget minded small business owners. Oh, and throw in a 1.6L-2.0L turbo diesel in it.

How interesting. But they are strictly utilitarian. Whereas the Scion would be more sporty and fun.

I don't know if there's a market for that. You also have to account for someone looking at a truck that size might say why would I spend $20K when I can spend $5K and get almost the same thing. Plus styling. How do you make it look good and not drive up the cost while at the same time not make it look old.

The Diesel would be awesome! It's an interesting idea for sure.

Originally Posted by madfast

you guys are nuts. like i said, besides for work, who would you market this thing to? nascar truck series fans? cmon...

People who want a masculine truck?

Originally Posted by madfast

again, that's work. im not arguing the worthiness of a pickup bed for moving/carrying shit. im arguing that there is NO place in the market for a scion pickup. scion is a youth oriented, trendy brand. since when was moving your friends couch trendy?

pickups were made to carry shit. if you daily drive a pickup with nothing in the back, waiting for your friend to move so you can save the day with your utility vehicle... im sorry. you do NOT represent the average person. the average person buys a chevy cruze to take their wife, kids, and dog to buy groceries and clothes at the mall....

stylish scion 2dr awd crossover > scion compact pickup...

oh and for the record i've never owned a truck. if you think that somehow invalidates the logic of my argument then so be it...

Dude, my XRunner (well not mine per say LOL) is in Drift competitions, autocrossing events, drag racing. It pulls .97 on the skid pad stock it's designed to handle. It's not meant to haul and tow.

It's entirely possible to have a very sporty Truck that you can haul a couch with if you want and get the best of both worlds.

Originally Posted by Dimman

F-series truck was the best-selling vehicle in North America for a reason.

Yep, look at all the F-350 Pavement queens that are jacked to Jesus. Can't tow, bed is too high to put anything in, they are just for LOOK AT ME factors.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

F-series truck was the best-selling vehicle in North America for a reason.

yes i know. but give me a sales breakdown of how many of those were sold for work and how many for daily driving, and then we'll talk.

talking about pickup sales is like talking about cars with fleet sales. you dont get the full picture.

[1660]

Originally Posted by madfast

again, that's work. im not arguing the worthiness of a pickup bed for moving/carrying shit. im arguing that there is NO place in the market for a scion pickup. scion is a youth oriented, trendy brand. since when was moving your friends couch trendy?

pickups were made to carry shit. if you daily drive a pickup with nothing in the back, waiting for your friend to move so you can save the day with your utility vehicle... im sorry. you do NOT represent the average person. the average person buys a chevy cruze to take their wife, kids, and dog to buy groceries and clothes at the mall....

stylish scion 2dr awd crossover > scion compact pickup...

oh and for the record i've never owned a truck. if you think that somehow invalidates the logic of my argument then so be it...

If you've never owned a pickup, why are you arguing? You clearly don't have a clue. Stick to what you know.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Seriously what are you hauling that has to be covered at all times? What about dirty stuff you don't want leaving grease/dirt/oil all over your carpet? .

listen to yourself. how many average people have to "haul" stuff?? normal people buy a couple bags of groceries, etc.

dirty stuff? i'd call anything dirty enough that you dont want in your cabin WORK related. or at best recreational items like dirtbikes/atvs... what normal stuff is dirty enough to be separated from the cabin?

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

How many Rav4's have you seen actually listed at that price new? Most start at $30K+. Adding 4WD usually tacks on $4-$5K.

That's kinda what I was saying. They already have an almost SUV like body. But like I said, extra cost. Will people be willing to pay it?.

well my assertion is that yes, people WOULD buy it. the outlander sport and juke are both starting under 24k. the juke, well under. add options etc and you still wont surpass 25k or whatever.

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

How interesting. But they are strictly utilitarian. Whereas the Scion would be more sporty and fun.

People who want a masculine truck? .

educate me. how big is the market for a sporty truck? from what little i know, it doesnt seem all too big.

what im trying to separate is the work pickup, from the recreational/dd pickup. if you dd your work truck, in my book that doesnt count. if you do occasional work with your dd truck then ok that counts.

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Dude, my XRunner (well not mine per say LOL) is in Drift competitions, autocrossing events, drag racing. It pulls .97 on the skid pad stock it's designed to handle. It's not meant to haul and tow.

It's entirely possible to have a very sporty Truck that you can haul a couch with if you want and get the best of both worlds. .

sure. just how many people are out there like you? truck drifting? cmon man, you cant seriously believe that you'd be in the majority here...

[madfast]

Originally Posted by 1660

If you've never owned a pickup, why are you arguing? You clearly don't have a clue. Stick to what you know.

what i KNOW is that scion would be foolish to sell a pickup instead of a suv/crossover.

if i am wrong then somebody should easily be able to put up real numbers showing me that the market is ready for a recreational, non-work related compact pickup. but until then...

[madfast]

whaddaya know...

The main culprits behind the drop in the popularity, besides high gas prices, include high unemployment and a dormant housing industry — those figures typically run parallel to the rise and fall of demand for pickups, Wards says.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05...-year-low.html

sure dont sounds likes people be buying sports pickups much eh?

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by nate89

Still winning though!

Originally Posted by Exage

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...way/index.html

Hmmmmmmm. (Thinks deeply)

Feh! It was only a matter of time before the new WRX release rumors started. 270PS from a 1.6L ain't bad, and is far more than I expect(ed). I say good luck to Subaru and good riddance to the AWD fanboys.

Still saving/waiting for FT86 .

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by madfast

yes i know. but give me a sales breakdown of how many of those were sold for work and how many for daily driving, and then we'll talk.

talking about pickup sales is like talking about cars with fleet sales. you dont get the full picture.

I'm sure a good portion are for work. I can tell you looking at the parking lot here at Boeing. A ton are simply for daily driving. You get into places like Texas where having a truck is almost a requirement.

Originally Posted by madfast

listen to yourself. how many average people have to "haul" stuff?? normal people buy a couple bags of groceries, etc.

dirty stuff? i'd call anything dirty enough that you dont want in your cabin WORK related. or at best recreational items like dirtbikes/atvs... what normal stuff is dirty enough to be separated from the cabin?



well my assertion is that yes, people WOULD buy it. the outlander sport and juke are both starting under 24k. the juke, well under. add options etc and you still wont surpass 25k or whatever.



educate me. how big is the market for a sporty truck? from what little i know, it doesnt seem all too big.

what im trying to separate is the work pickup, from the recreational/dd pickup. if you dd your work truck, in my book that doesnt count. if you do occasional work with your dd truck then ok that counts.




sure. just how many people are out there like you? truck drifting? cmon man, you cant seriously believe that you'd be in the majority here...

ROFL! Dude I'm sorry but you are an idiot.

How many normal people need to haul stuff? I dunno maybe everyone who owns a home? Lawnmower, trimmer, yard waste, car parts, engines, windows, doors, etc. I mean the list goes on and on for all the things normal people might need to haul. They are all dirty things that aren't related to work. I know I wouldn't put my Lawnmower in my SUV. Unless it was my wheeler.

Don't forget Towing. A lot of SUV's can't tow 45 foot trailers and boats.

Your assertion is just some random guy who knows very little. So pitch your idea to Scion and see how quickly they hang up.

The market for a Sporty Truck is about the same for a Sporty SUV. The market is exceedingly small. But it does exist.

Majority? No. I never said Majority. I simply stated a fact, there's a market for them. Hence the XRunner. I don't believe there's any Sporty SUV's on the market right now.

Originally Posted by madfast

what i believe is that scion would be foolish to sell a pickup instead of a suv/crossover.

if i am wrong then somebody should easily be able to put up real numbers showing me that the market is ready for a recreational, non-work related compact pickup. but until then...

Fixed it for you.

Put up some number for people who want a Sporty SUV. Everything on the market is for moving people and little else.

Originally Posted by madfast

whaddaya know...

The main culprits behind the drop in the popularity, besides high gas prices, include high unemployment and a dormant housing industry — those figures typically run parallel to the rise and fall of demand for pickups, Wards says.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05...-year-low.html

sure dont sounds likes people be buying sports pickups much eh?

And dear god! Car and SUV sales are down too! YOU MEAN IT'S ALL RELATED? Dude you're grabbing at straws here. With no idea what you're talking about.

A Scion Truck would sell just as well as Scion SUV. Because people who would buy it are pretty much the same market.

Now what I wouldn't mind seeing is a resurrection of the Cy/Ty's that would be sick. But I don't see that happening either.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Still winning though!

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

How many normal people need to haul stuff? I dunno maybe everyone who owns a home? Lawnmower, trimmer, yard waste, car parts, engines, windows, doors, etc. I mean the list goes on and on for all the things normal people might need to haul. They are all dirty things that aren't related to work. I know I wouldn't put my Lawnmower in my SUV. Unless it was my wheeler.

Don't forget Towing. A lot of SUV's can't tow 45 foot trailers and boats..

and where are you taking all these things? how often? and how is that not work? and towing, that's not work? the average person tows stuff to go to work? to go shopping?

its no use talking about it anymore. im talking about buying a vehicle for everyday use. going to work, school, shopping, restaurant, mall, etc.. you're listing the 10,000 things you can do with a pickup... obviously if you do those kinda things often enough you're gonna get a pickup. but i dunno how many americans actually do...

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

The market for a Sporty Truck is about the same for a Sporty SUV. The market is exceedingly small. But it does exist.

Put up some number for people who want a Sporty SUV. Everything on the market is for moving people and little else. .

i never said anything about a SPORTY suv/crossover. just a regular one with enough power to not totally suck. you talked about sporty pickups.