Coilovers or lowering springs

[Hawk77FT]

Hi all, I am in the process of getting some stuff for my car before it arrives.
Thinking of getting it lowered and get some nice wheels for the moment. My question is:

1. Coilovers or springs? What brand do you guys recommend and how much approx? I am not going to use the car for track (or maybe I will once I get it ) or anything, just street use but i want it handle like its on rails.
2. What size for the wheels. WTF put on his white GTS a nice set of 18" but not sure at this stage. I dont want to muck the speedo too much. I would like to get the bulky, fat lowered look. What is the maximum off set I could get for 17's? How about 18's?

Any advice would be grately appreciated.

[Panman]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Hi all, I am in the process of getting some stuff for my car before it arrives.
Thinking of getting it lowered and get some nice wheels for the moment. My question is:

1. Coilovers or springs? What brand do you guys recommend and how much approx? I am not going to use the car for track (or maybe I will once I get it ) or anything, just street use but i want it handle like its on rails.
2. What size for the wheels. WTF put on his white GTS a nice set of 18" but not sure at this stage. I dont want to muck the speedo too much. I would like to get the bulky, fat lowered look. What is the maximum off set I could get for 17's? How about 18's?

Any advice would be grately appreciated.

Lots of "advice" on the forums, but here's my input (in before the rush)

1. If you aren't going to track the car a reasonable set of springs without a huge drop should be okay. The stock shocks seem from all feedback to be overvalved for the current ride height which means a moderate spring drop will be okay. The TRD ones which will work with the factory shocks have a 20mm drop (so nearly an inch). Coilovers will get you more options with height, but if you aren't going to track the car may be exonsive and have the potential to ruin the street ride if not set up absolutely correctly. Lots of spring options though and reasonably priced. RCE, TRD, Eibach and many more. You should also ensure that you can correct the geometry changes that lowering the car (whether springs or coilovers) will bring or you risk ruining the ride, handling and wearing out tyres.

2. Wheels - personal choice here as you again run the risk of ruining ride and handling by going the wrong way - too much tyre or too heavy a wheel/tyre combo will not only reduce performance and handling - lots of folks going for staggered setups - my feeling is the car was released as it is for a desired handling state. You also need to check legality of whatever you look at for wheels. Every state is slightly different. 18"s seem to be the biggest most folk are going with which makes sense for the size of the car. General rule is stick as close to the standard track measurements as possible and get the lightest wheel and tyre combo you can afford (reducing unsprung weight).

I've got a set of 18" CR-Kai for sale in the classies section but they probably won't suit your low and wide intent. They will handle well though.

[RAN94A]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

1. Coilovers or springs? What brand do you guys recommend and how much approx? I am not going to use the car for track (or maybe I will once I get it ) or anything, just street use but i want it handle like its on rails.
Have you driven one yet?? There isnt much point in stockpiling mods if you dont know that you're unhappy with the stock performance. Personally i think the car handles amazingly well but thats coming from a luxury sedan with plenty of body roll.

But if you definitely want the "on rails" effect, then coilovers is the bet.. just keep in mind it will likely be a harsh ride over springs.

2. What size for the wheels. WTF put on his white GTS a nice set of 18" but not sure at this stage. I dont want to muck the speedo too much. I would like to get the bulky, fat lowered look. What is the maximum off set I could get for 17's? How about 18's?

Again entirely up to you.. when you go up in rim size generally you go for a lower profile tyre so that you keep rolling diameter the same (=non fkd speedo). however the lower the profile the harsher the ride, the worse it will handle, the more expensive the tyre and the more chance you have of damaging the tyre/rim when you hit a pothole.

there's a couple of useful articles in the wheels section on who's running what width/offset.

Any advice would be grately appreciated.

.

[phenom86]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12856

[nix]

Yeah the question on suspension is what's your goal from it. If you just want a similar to stock ride, some lowered & a bit stiffer springs are a decent option. Also in some states adjustable spring perches (such as all coilovers have) are illegal but I don't think that's an issue in QLD. Very rough guide on prices is $200-400 for some quality lowering springs. $1500-3000 for low to medium-high range coilover kits. $200-400 on camber correction. $500 ish for sway bar sets. $200-300 per for front/rear strut bars.

Once you start lowering the car much more than stock you will induce some negative camber both front and rear due to the way our suspension geometry works. For the front this can be dialled out via adjustable top mounts (included with some coilovers) and camber bolts, and in the rears via either camber bolt sets and/or adjustable lower control arms. You should include these options in your suspension budget if you are lowering the car more than ~20mm.

On the topic of wheels, don't be so concerned about speedo changes as you can adjust tyre size to match rim to give basically the same running diameter as stock. Use this tyre calculator to test sizes. Stock is 245/45/R17. 235/35/R18 would give a 100kph speedo reading an actual speed of 99.34kph for example.

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by nix

Yeah the question on suspension is what's your goal from it. If you just want a similar to stock ride, some lowered & a bit stiffer springs are a decent option. Also in some states adjustable spring perches (such as all coilovers have) are illegal but I don't think that's an issue in QLD. Very rough guide on prices is $200-400 for some quality lowering springs. $1500-3000 for low to medium-high range coilover kits. $200-400 on camber correction. $500 ish for sway bar sets. $200-300 per for front/rear strut bars.

Once you start lowering the car much more than stock you will induce some negative camber both front and rear due to the way our suspension geometry works. For the front this can be dialled out via adjustable top mounts (included with some coilovers) and camber bolts, and in the rears via either camber bolt sets and/or adjustable lower control arms. You should include these options in your suspension budget if you are lowering the car more than ~20mm.

On the topic of wheels, don't be so concerned about speedo changes as you can adjust tyre size to match rim to give basically the same running diameter as stock. Use this tyre calculator to test sizes. Stock is 245/45/R17. 235/35/R18 would give a 100kph speedo reading an actual speed of 99.34kph for example.

Stock 245? Doubt it...maybe 215? Well I like the fat tyres and wheels, I cannot lie!

I think everything goes down to costs. I love the 18' and the look of them on this car, but they go very nice with a set of lowering springs or coilovers. I think I will look at the costs involved and also the budget.

[nix]

Yeah sorry that was a mistype.

[Hawk77FT]

Thanks a lot for your advice so far. Would spring intallation void the warranty? or installing a set of coilovers?

[Panman]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Thanks a lot for your advice so far. Would spring intallation void the warranty? or installing a set of coilovers?

Only if Toyota/Subaru can prove that the part you installed caused damage - eg. If you installed springs, and the shock failed then warranty on the shock is void as they can (probably correctly) say that the failure of the shock was due to the spring.

If your engine explodes then they'd have to prove it was your springs that caused the damage.

[Nafe]

I had a response to this typed up last night, but lost it :s
Springs – Great if all you want to do is look cool. They *can* improve handling to a degree, but it’s not guaranteed. The standard shocks are quite good from all accounts, but as with *most* (not all) stock suspension, there is a compromise. A compromise of handling v “streetability”/comfort. If you want to look cool and just have some fun driving around the streets, springs will be fine.
Just a quick correction too. TRD springs are 15mm lower, not 20mm. I know it’s not much, but for the sake of correct information From what I understand, and I’d love for someone to either confirm or correct me, these cars only have 130mm ground clearance from factory. The legal limit for lowering in QLD is 100mm. So you don’t really want to go too much lower than an inch anyway.

Coilovers – Obviously a lot more expensive than springs as you get the whole strut/spring assembly. The first obvious benefit of coilovers is height adjustability. Most coilovers also offer varying amounts of damper adjustability and alot also offer camber adjustment on the front (with Macpherson struts, like the ZN6). One thing I would advise with coilover choice is not to get springs that are too stiff. I wouldn’t, personally, be going for springs stiffer than 6kg/mm on either front or rear. And bear in mind that the rear springs standard are 10% stiffer than the rears and alot of Japanese coilover kits are usually heavier in the front. Just another thing to keep in mind
If you plan on taking your car to the rack at all, I would suggest coilovers over springs. I plan on taking mine to the track, so I will be getting coilovers.

Wheels – That can be tougher. Some members are saying the sizes such as 8.5inwide +25 and +30 won’t fit in the guards, which is bullshit. You won’t get super low offset on them though. WTF’s are 9.5in wide front and rear and +38 offset. They might stick out a tiny bit, but it proves that you can fit wide wheels with decent offset under them. I will likely be going 8.5in wide with roughly +30 offset. Diameter is a personal thing too. I personally hate 19in wheels and am not toooo keen on 18’s. I will be going 17’s. Also the bigger your diameter (not too mention width) the heavier they are as well, if weight is a concern.