We Ask Toyota & Subaru about James May's Claim that Toyota Gets 90% of GT 86/FR-S/BRZ

[Roadliner]

Originally Posted by moniz

Well it was Toyota's idea and motivation that launched the project, but minus the injection system and their interior/exterior design, it's all Subaru, manufactured in Subaru's plant. In actual physical fact is really Subaru's car, with Toyota making design and injection contributions.

Thats right but you know what?

This car only happened because of TOYOTA. Simple.

Also this car turned out the way it has (RWD, N/A,) because of TOYOTA, Subaru was reluctant all the way with the direction this was was taking, wanting it to be TURBO, AWD and more expensive.

Im not gonna say its more one make or another, its equally both but it makes sense that TOYOTA should have first dibs on production numbers.

For all we know, both makes did not know how popular these twins would turn out

[Orthow]

Originally Posted by Roadliner

Thats right but you know what?

This car only happened because of TOYOTA. Simple.

Also this car turned out the way it has (RWD, N/A,) because of TOYOTA, Subaru was reluctant all the way with the direction this was was taking, wanting it to be TURBO, AWD and more expensive.

Im not gonna say its more one make or another, its equally both but it makes sense that TOYOTA should have first dibs on production numbers.

For all we know, both makes did not know how popular these twins would turn out

I would think this would be obvious.

Especially to the pro Subaru crowd. This car does NOT have Subaru legendary AWD, the car does not have a Turbo 4 cylinder ala Subaru, the car doesn't have 4 doors as per Subaru majority.

Everything I have read clearly shows this car is all Toyota. My hardcore Subby friends all agree and that's why they still own STI's and not the BRZ. They are brand loyalists to an extreme and don't feel this car shares enough Subaru heritage so to speak.

And as mentioned, Subaru couldn't hope to keep up in production to Toyota..they've never had an overly popular car that sold in huge numbers.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Roadliner

Thats right but you know what?

This car only happened because of TOYOTA. Simple.

Also this car turned out the way it has (RWD, N/A,) because of TOYOTA, Subaru was reluctant all the way with the direction this was was taking, wanting it to be TURBO, AWD and more expensive.

Im not gonna say its more one make or another, its equally both but it makes sense that TOYOTA should have first dibs on production numbers.

For all we know, both makes did not know how popular these twins would turn out

It wouldn't have happened without Subaru either. The Tada interview didn't cover things like Toyota's lack of available production space or lack of engineering time to put towards the core structure and suspension.

This car wouldn't exist without BOTH companies.

Toyota sells more cars. Period. They have the marketshare and advertising budget to make sure they continue to be one of the top car companies on the planet. They also footed the bill for most of development. So of course they will get the lion's share of production.

And further, who was taking the bigger risk here? Looking at the past and current offerings of both companies, Subaru had the higher chance of being unable to move units off the dealership lots. So they had a greater risk of losing money. So why commit to more cars?

I'm sure Toyota and Subaru will review ghe production schedule for next year and adjust according to what is most profitable fof both companies.

But the Toyota vs Subaru argument is just stupid. This car needed both companies to become a reality. So cut it out.

[Turbowned]

I think it depends on the country. I want to say I remember reading that in the first year there would be 10,000 FR-S's and 6,000 BRZ's built for the U.S. or North American market.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

This car wouldn't exist without BOTH companies.

You're kinda right in the sense that Toyota needed Subaru's engine. But if Subaru had backed out Toyota would still have gone through with the project. It may have taken them a bit longer and costed them more, but Subaru was still going to supply Toyota with its engine.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by Orthow

I would think this would be obvious.

Especially to the pro Subaru crowd. This car does NOT have Subaru legendary AWD, the car does not have a Turbo 4 cylinder ala Subaru, the car doesn't have 4 doors as per Subaru majority.

Everything I have read clearly shows this car is all Toyota. My hardcore Subby friends all agree and that's why they still own STI's and not the BRZ. They are brand loyalists to an extreme and don't feel this car shares enough Subaru heritage so to speak.

And as mentioned, Subaru couldn't hope to keep up in production to Toyota..they've never had an overly popular car that sold in huge numbers.

So, you guys realize that the car is built exclusively by Subaru, in Subaru's factories, right?

Also, the overhead design (RWD, NA, sports coupe) may have been Toyota, but Subaru did almost all the engineering behind it. Any "hardcore subby" would take one look at the car and know it's a Subaru right down to the core.

Additionally, Subaru was interested in Toyota's hybrid tech, as they are much further along in development than any other automotive company right now. This entered pretty heavily into the decision to allow Toyota the larger production base.


EDIT (missed this reply while posting my own):

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

It wouldn't have happened without Subaru either. The Tada interview didn't cover things like Toyota's lack of available production space or lack of engineering time to put towards the core structure and suspension.

This car wouldn't exist without BOTH companies.

Toyota sells more cars. Period. They have the marketshare and advertising budget to make sure they continue to be one of the top car companies on the planet. They also footed the bill for most of development. So of course they will get the lion's share of production.

And further, who was taking the bigger risk here? Looking at the past and current offerings of both companies, Subaru had the higher chance of being unable to move units off the dealership lots. So they had a greater risk of losing money. So why commit to more cars?

I'm sure Toyota and Subaru will review ghe production schedule for next year and adjust according to what is most profitable fof both companies.

But the Toyota vs Subaru argument is just stupid. This car needed both companies to become a reality. So cut it out.

Bingo. See above for one of the main reasons Subaru got involved.

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

So, you guys realize that the car is built exclusively by Subaru, in Subaru's factories, right?

Also, the overhead design (RWD, NA, sports coupe) may have been Toyota, but Subaru did almost all the engineering behind it. Any "hardcore subby" would take one look at the car and know it's a Subaru right down to the core.

Additionally, Subaru was interested in Toyota's hybrid tech, as they are much further along in development than any other automotive company right now. This entered pretty heavily into the decision to allow Toyota the larger production base.


EDIT (missed this reply while posting my own):


Bingo. See above for one of the main reasons Subaru got involved.

I think your the first "hard core" Subaru guy who said the twins look like a Subaru.

The cars don't look like anything Toyata or Subaru has made before, you can tell its a big mix of ideas. Even some of engine parts aren't really Subaru committed.

But in the end, it really doesn't matter who did more or who did less. Both these brands needed an image uplifting (Scion too!) and these two cars are most defiantly helping.

[DarkSunrise]

Honest question here. I'm always confused why people care enough to argue whether this is more of a Subaru or Toyota project. Is it because they're fanboys who want to make sure their particular manufacturer gets credit for this car?

[blackraven1425]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Honest question here. I'm always confused why people care enough to argue whether this is more of a Subaru or Toyota project. Is it because they're fanboys who want to make sure their particular manufacturer gets credit for this car?

Also, this is the internet, after all...

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by dem00n

I think your the first "hard core" Subaru guy who said the twins look like a Subaru.

The cars don't look like anything Toyata or Subaru has made before, you can tell its a big mix of ideas.

Um excuse me? There is a lot of Toyota in there.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by blackraven1425

Also, this is the internet, after all...

Hah good point.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by dem00n

I think your the first "hard core" Subaru guy who said the twins look like a Subaru.

The cars don't look like anything Toyata or Subaru has made before, you can tell its a big mix of ideas. Even some of engine parts aren't really Subaru committed.

But in the end, it really doesn't matter who did more or who did less. Both these brands needed an image uplifting (Scion too!) and these two cars are most defiantly helping.

This discussion isn't about opinion or who thinks what, the facts are the facts. Toyota designed it, Subaru built it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know how2car.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

You're kinda right in the sense that Toyota needed Subaru's engine. But if Subaru had backed out Toyota would still have gone through with the project. It may have taken them a bit longer and costed them more, but Subaru was still going to supply Toyota with its engine.

They wouldn't have been able to build it since all of their production capability was already earmarked for other cars. That's why the smaller of the two companies is assembling them. Toyota's BoD wouldn't have pulled back production on a known profitable product to make an unproven niche car.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

This discussion isn't about opinion or who thinks what, the facts are the facts. Toyota designed it, Subaru built it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know how2car.

So, what does this mean:
"Any "hardcore subby" would take one look at the car and know it's a Subaru right down to the core."?

What is "core"?