FA20CLUB 4-1 Modular Header.....Turbo Manifold DYNO TESTED

[FA20Club.com]

where did i not state that the car had our header and an e85 tune in this thread what confused you..? so why dont you bolt on a header up there pour in some ethanol and go test the header for yourself. the header e85 and tune made X amount i never once stated that the header only made the power. so where are the shadow games. either stay on topic or kindly remove yourself from the thread.

[BryanGT]

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

where did i not state that the car had our header and an e85 tune in this thread what confused you..? so why dont you bolt on a header up there pour in some ethanol and go test the header for yourself. the header e85 and tune made X amount i never once stated that the header only made the power. so where are the shadow games. either stay on topic or kindly remove yourself from the thread.

Look man, I just want to know what this header can do by itself. There is not a single e85 station within 30 miles of where I live or work. Fuck me, right?

In your signature and on your site you say: FA20CLUB Modular 4-1 Header Turbo Manifold +29HP +35TQ Tested and "Dyno Proven"

Where in your signature or on your site do you tell the truth about those number? Do you expect everyone who buys something from your site to go over to some random forum on the internet and wade through hundreds and thousands of posts to figure out that those numbers come largely on the back of a fuel change and tune?

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by BryanGT

Look man, I just want to know what this header can do by itself. There is not a single e85 station within 30 miles of where I live or work. Fuck me, right?

In your signature and on your site you say: FA20CLUB Modular 4-1 Header Turbo Manifold +29HP +35TQ Tested and "Dyno Proven"

Where in your signature or on your site do you tell the truth about those number? Do you expect everyone who buys something from your site to go over to some random forum on the internet and wade through hundreds and thousands of posts to figure out that those numbers come largely on the back of a fuel change and tune?

If you read the post, you'll see what it was tested with. Tony is a well respected tuner on these forums. It helps to do research on these kind of things. You don't buy a header and just NOT tune it. You're just pissing your money away if that's your plan. E85 + the header shows its highest potential in an N/A form. Will this vary upon different people? Yes, simply because of fuel.

Whenever you make a big purchase, do you normally go by what it says right away when a manufacturer posts something? I personally do research and look for other results. The EL posted some pretty nice results itself.

[BryanGT]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

If you read the post, you'll see what it was tested with. Tony is a well respected tuner on these forums. It helps to do research on these kind of things. You don't buy a header and just NOT tune it. You're just pissing your money away if that's your plan. E85 + the header shows its highest potential in an N/A form. Will this vary upon different people? Yes, simply because of fuel.

Whenever you make a big purchase, do you normally go by what it says right away when a manufacturer posts something? I personally do research and look for other results. The EL posted some pretty nice results itself.

I'm doing my research, and I don't actually doubt that I could replicate his results (if I had reasonable access to E85). He definitely does appear to be a good tuner.


The problem is that he doesn't appear to be a very careful or straightforward businessman. It is literally against the law to misrepresent your product to a customer or place the burden of verifying your claims on the customer (having that information in some unlinked forum post is not fair or reasonable disclosure). The fact is that if someone went to FA20Club.com and bought his "+29HP +35TQ" header they wouldn't know that you actually need to spend at least another $600 on a tune and purchase rare fuel to make that number real (and further invalidate your warranty). He's the one making the claim here, Matt, and instead of providing a more controlled dyno comparison or adding the appropriate information to his product page: he's just waiving his hands and talking about how busy he is, or how he did a better job on some other product.


So there it is: I've vetted this product and I've found some really questionable business practices. I'm not going to buy it. The next person to research these headers can read what's here and come to their own conclusions.

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by BryanGT

I'm doing my research, and I don't actually doubt that I could replicate his results (if I had reasonable access to E85). He definitely does appear to be a good tuner.


The problem is that he doesn't appear to be a very careful or straightforward businessman. It is literally against the law to misrepresent your product to a customer or place the burden of verifying your claims on the customer (having that information in some unlinked forum post is not fair or reasonable disclosure). The fact is that if someone went to FA20Club.com and bought his "+29HP +35TQ" header they wouldn't know that you actually need to spend at least another $600 on a tune and purchase rare fuel to make that number real (and further invalidate your warranty). He's the one making the claim here, Matt, and instead of providing a more controlled dyno comparison or adding the appropriate information to his product page: he's just waiving his hands and talking about how busy he is, or how he did a better job on some other product.


So there it is: I've vetted this product and I've found some really questionable business practices. I'm not going to buy it. The next person to research these headers can read what's here and come to their own conclusions.

Well, then Perrin is breaking the law too because a guy that did a review on the full Perrin Headerback and Vortech Kit made 1 whp more on multiple runs with just upgrading the exhaust when they claim a 15 whp gain. It's part of selling. The conditions could have been bad on that dyno with temps, humidity, elevation, etc, but there's no law that says you can't sell something based on false numbers. People do it all the time, look at Hyundai.

In the end, these vendors are trying to make money and make a living. This is a performance part. If you're looking at getting headers, you're an enthusiast and would be interested in the max amount it can push. There isn't a single header that will do much more than 10 whp by itself with no tune on 93 octane. More power lies in the tune and fuel quality than the part itself. You have to combine things if you want results. If your intention was to just get a header and expect those numbers, you're sadly mistaken. Performance comes with a price and you gotta pay to play.

[lexusb3]

i can say that im very happy with my products and their performance. FA20club.com pushes out new products example their new UEL headers and tunes competitors products as well as there own and 99% of them leave with a huge simile on their face! @FR-S Matt is right "Performance comes with a price and you gotta pay to play. " so either buy the headers and get a tune with what ever gas you have and enjoy the increase in performance Proven with the dyno sheets! or enjoy the car stock lol good luck with your future build

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by phloozy

I don't understand how you can defend this. I agree its not illegal but it is misleading and in my opinion poor practice. The way to make money is to have a good product, not to throw some sparkles on it to try to fool the public.

There are a lot of products out right now for this car that do this. If you want the real answers, let the customers do the talking. Wait for the third party dynos, unbiased. If the products themselves are truly good, they will sell themselves and you'll see it. Tony has a track record of great products, and happy customers. I highly doubt this header will be disappointing by any means. The smart consumer is an educated consumer.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by phloozy

I don't understand how you can defend this. I agree its not illegal but it is misleading and in my opinion poor practice. The way to make money is to have a good product, not to throw some sparkles on it to try to fool the public.

how is it misleading it clearly states what the car had??? e85 + headers! not like it said pump gas + headers = "that hp" <--thats misleading

[phloozy]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

how is it misleading it clearly states what the car had??? e85 + headers! not like it said pump gas + headers = "that hp" <--thats misleading

I am about to eat my words. I see now that it says "Tested with E85" on their site and i could have sworn i checked before running my mouth. If this was always there I apologize and will delete my posts.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by phloozy

I am about to eat my words. I see now that it says "Tested with E85" on their site and i could have sworn i checked before running my mouth. If this was always there I apologize and will delete my posts.

thats why we have these forums hahah all good :happy0180:
FA20club.com for the WIN!!

[FA20Club.com]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

There are a lot of products out right now for this car that do this. If you want the real answers, let the customers do the talking. Wait for the third party dynos, unbiased. If the products themselves are truly good, they will sell themselves and you'll see it. Tony has a track record of great products, and happy customers. I highly doubt this header will be disappointing by any means. The smart consumer is an educated consumer.

I agree thats why a consumers results carry more weight than mine do and most of our products have been tested an reviewed by end users and i prefer it that way cause anything the manufacturer releases with always be viewed as biased. and if i sell something that doesnt work then end user will plain as day post online and kill not only my sales but my rep and im not that stupid. if you guys see the pile of failed dreams in the corner of the shop that didnt do what we hoped and we redesigned a product you would understand that i dont sell snake oil.

according to your argument is i should change my sig to state e85 well then done!

[phloozy]

Posts deleted! Thanks for understanding. As for example as to why I care, I will pay more for a product from a vendor I know is honest and upfront about it. I used to drive an hour to AZP Installs for any kind of service and paid more for products from them for that reason alone. Keep up the good work and thanks for being part of the forums.

[FA20Club.com]

Originally Posted by BryanGT

I'm doing my research, and I don't actually doubt that I could replicate his results (if I had reasonable access to E85). He definitely does appear to be a good tuner.


The problem is that he doesn't appear to be a very careful or straightforward businessman. It is literally against the law to misrepresent your product to a customer or place the burden of verifying your claims on the customer (having that information in some unlinked forum post is not fair or reasonable disclosure). The fact is that if someone went to FA20Club.com and bought his "+29HP +35TQ" header they wouldn't know that you actually need to spend at least another $600 on a tune and purchase rare fuel to make that number real (and further invalidate your warranty). He's the one making the claim here, Matt, and instead of providing a more controlled dyno comparison or adding the appropriate information to his product page: he's just waiving his hands and talking about how busy he is, or how he did a better job on some other product.


So there it is: I've vetted this product and I've found some really questionable business practices. I'm not going to buy it. The next person to research these headers can read what's here and come to their own conclusions.

Thank You. Your opinion is noted its a public forum so youre entitled.

[chiefshayan]

All is fair in marketing. Hope to be working with the FA20Club team very soon! Great website and great products.

Perrin speaks of double digit horsepower gains with their full exhaust but look at this dyno where they only gained 1hp (dyno at 15:40)! [ame]http://youtu.be/se5LVsiTfvo[/ame]