Used FRS vs. new BRZ

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by HKz

isn't that what I said? Some folks appreciate what one gets in a new car, I didn't say everyone. I personally love the new car smell, taking off the factory plastics over trim pieces, knowing that every little ding and scratch is from me, etc.. And tbh the car, at least in the case of the 86, feels slightly different coming right off the lot than getting into a used one.

Probably just a misunderstanding on my part. I read (and just reread) your post as meaning it was a different experience for everyone, and some people like it. I was just saying I don't consider it different.

Minor point either way.

[ermax]

Only used for me. The new car smell is cool but not worth it. Although it does suck looking at a scratch and thinking how it wouldn't exist if I was the original owner. But still not worth it. You can buy WAY more car for the same price if you go used. There have been so few changes (hell even on the 2017) on the FT86 over the years that going used is very appealing. As others have already said, stay away from 2013 and avoid modded cars. Personal preference for me is the FRS because the front clip looks better. This isn't a luxury car so I don't really care if it has heated seats and climate control.

[GrantedTaken]

Stay away from 2013 is bad advice.
2013 is dead nuts reliable.
Just buy one that isn't ratted out.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Stay away from 2013 is bad advice.
2013 is dead nuts reliable.
Just buy one that isn't ratted out.

How is it bad.. they had a few known issues that can be catastrophic in the long run. The transient ignition retard table was incomplete causing detonation on big transients which eventually leads to DI seal failures which leads to more detonation. This was fixed with software in 2014 but most dealers refuse to flash 2013s with the 2014 rom even though there a a TSB specifically telling them to. I got my 2013 with 80K miles on it and it still had the original early 2013 flash on it. Rather than convince a dealer to flash my car I got a Tactix and did it myself.

Just because you have a 2013 with no problems doesn't mean it's bad advice to avoid the 2013. Knowing what I know now I surely would have avoided the 2013. If someone is contemplating a brand new BRZ vs a used one I doubt the price difference between a 2013 and a 2015 is going to be a hard choice.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

How is it bad.. they had a few known issues that can be catastrophic in the long run. The transient ignition retard table was incomplete causing detonation on big transients which eventually leads to DI seal failures which leads to more detonation. This was fixed with software in 2014 but most dealers refuse to flash 2013s with the 2014 rom even though there a a TSB specifically telling them to. I got my 2013 with 80K miles on it and it still had the original early 2013 flash on it. Rather than convince a dealer to flash my car I got a Tactix and did it myself.

Just because you have a 2013 with no problems doesn't mean it's bad advice to avoid the 2013. Knowing what I know now I surely would have avoided the 2013. If someone is contemplating a brand new BRZ vs a used one I doubt the price difference between a 2013 and a 2015 is going to be a hard choice.

Can you support that statement?
I am much more willing to bet that most dealers have done the reflash to any car where it was warranted. As I have said before any 13 that has lasted this long has either had the fixes applied or did not suffer from the know issues in the first place.
I personally however agree that early 13s should remain a last choice not a first. They may all be fine at this point and there are many, many people driving them that never saw any of the problems but like any first production runs of a vehicle there is an increased risk of something going wrong. Not saying that anything will but simply that increased risk is not acceptable to me.

[cjd]

I think I've shared this in one of the other Miata vs. threads, but... I had to replace my '14 BRZ, and I gave the Miata the obligatory evaluation. The RF had me interested - it's a great looking little car, and the Miata certainly does well in the 'fun to drive' category.

Two things kept me away.

1. I felt slightly off sitting in the car - probably because it's just a little less room everywhere.
2. I love being able to haul everything and road-trip in my car - and that was not going to work in the Miata.

Also, nearly all the parts survived so my loss was minimized getting another twin... but that never even became part of the equation because the Miata was just not a good fit.

It's really down to how you feel driving either.

Also, if e85 is available (it's cheaper out here than 93, but I can't run it because class rules...) it's not a big endeavor to get the twins capable of running it, for a nice power boost no less. Granted you probably should get a flex fuel setup so you can run 91/93 if you can't find e85 but... options. No idea whether it's possible on the Miata, but it's one potential way to offset the premium only fuel thing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cjd

I think I've shared this in one of the other Miata vs. threads, but... I had to replace my '14 BRZ, and I gave the Miata the obligatory evaluation. The RF had me interested - it's a great looking little car, and the Miata certainly does well in the 'fun to drive' category.

Two things kept me away.

1. I felt slightly off sitting in the car - probably because it's just a little less room everywhere.
2. I love being able to haul everything and road-trip in my car - and that was not going to work in the Miata.

Also, nearly all the parts survived so my loss was minimized getting another twin... but that never even became part of the equation because the Miata was just not a good fit.

It's really down to how you feel driving either.

Also, if e85 is available (it's cheaper out here than 93, but I can't run it because class rules...) it's not a big endeavor to get the twins capable of running it, for a nice power boost no less. Granted you probably should get a flex fuel setup so you can run 91/93 if you can't find e85 but... options. No idea whether it's possible on the Miata, but it's one potential way to offset the premium only fuel thing.

I would think (I don't know since I have never looked) that the RF would be even worse for hauling things than the standard Miata's. How much usable trunk is there when you account for all the top mech? Even with the top up there can't be a whole lot of storage back there.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I would think (I don't know since I have never looked) that the RF would be even worse for hauling things than the standard Miata's. How much usable trunk is there when you account for all the top mech? Even with the top up there can't be a whole lot of storage back there.

It's not just that. My wife knits while I drive, and the Miata is just a little short on having room for the pattern and all the rest. Plus the back seat is where snacks and water and stuff that are good to have handy during the drive.

This probably means nothing to a lot of people, but it's one of the key differentiators in my opinion - that it was one of the design goals for the car probably speaks to the intentional niche it's found. I mean, I also really like being able to haul a set of tires and all the rest I need for a weekend of racing, and still fit a passenger.

This is what keeps it interesting in the car market, I guess.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cjd

It's not just that. My wife knits while I drive, and the Miata is just a little short on having room for the pattern and all the rest. Plus the back seat is where snacks and water and stuff that are good to have handy during the drive.

This probably means nothing to a lot of people, but it's one of the key differentiators in my opinion - that it was one of the design goals for the car probably speaks to the intentional niche it's found. I mean, I also really like being able to haul a set of tires and all the rest I need for a weekend of racing, and still fit a passenger.

This is what keeps it interesting in the car market, I guess.

One of my main requirements is that my car must be able to hold at least two people and their golf clubs. Many of the two seaters can not do this. I have even managed to get three people and their clubs in the car a few times. It did involve a very Tetris like planning session involving removing clubs from bags and strategic placement in the back seat but it was totally doable.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Can you support that statement?
I am much more willing to bet that most dealers have done the reflash to any car where it was warranted. As I have said before any 13 that has lasted this long has either had the fixes applied or did not suffer from the know issues in the first place.
I personally however agree that early 13s should remain a last choice not a first. They may all be fine at this point and there are many, many people driving them that never saw any of the problems but like any first production runs of a vehicle there is an increased risk of something going wrong. Not saying that anything will but simply that increased risk is not acceptable to me.

As I said, my car still had the original CALID when I got it in October 2017. It had the idle stability problems and stalled when coming to a stop a few times which prompted me to research. It was then that I found threads about the DI seal problems along with the idle TSB. I read where people had difficulty getting dealers to actually flash it which lead me to a Tactrix cable. I like tools so it didn't take much to make up my mind anyways.

If you have a 2013 that was babied (how would you ever know) and/or had the CALID updated early on then it would probably be fine. The DI seal problem is only really an issue when shifting at redline. I believe my car was babied so it's probably fine. Regardless, if your in the market today I still stand by my advice to avoid 2013. Just not worth the risk.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

As I said, my car still had the original CALID when I got it in October 2017. It had the idle stability problems and stalled when coming to a stop a few times which prompted me to research. It was then that I found threads about the DI seal problems along with the idle TSB. I read where people had difficulty getting dealers to actually flash it which lead me to a Tactrix cable. I like tools so it didn't take much to make up my mind anyways.

If you have a 2013 that was babied (how would you ever know) and/or had the CALID updated early on then it would probably be fine. The DI seal problem is only really an issue when shifting at redline. I believe my car was babied so it's probably fine. Regardless, if your in the market today I still stand by my advice to avoid 2013. Just not worth the risk.

Ok a few people posting that they couldn't get it done does not constitute "most dealers" but I see how that impression could come about. We never hear about the people that didn't have an issue since they have nothing to complain about.
Buying used is always a crap shoot at best so if MYs with known issues can be avoided then why risk it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

One of my main requirements is that my car must be able to hold at least two people and their golf clubs. Many of the two seaters can not do this. I have even managed to get three people and their clubs in the car a few times. It did involve a very Tetris like planning session involving removing clubs from bags and strategic placement in the back seat but it was totally doable.

My primary requirement is the car must be able to be used for a week vacation trip with MomHawk and I, and I need to be able to see out the rear window.

So, it needs to look something like this (documented in th "Junk in the trunk" thread)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

My primary requirement is the car must be able to be used for a week vacation trip with MomHawk and I, and I need to be able to see out the rear window.

So, it needs to look something like this (documented in th "Junk in the trunk" thread)

Yep. Let's see somebody do that in a Miata, most Porsches, Z cars, etc.
Last trip to Vegas our rental car was a Fiat 500. I stood in the parking lot for a good 10 minutes pondering how the hell I was going to get just the two suitcases into the damn thing.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. Let's see somebody do that in a Miata, most Porsches, Z cars, etc.
Last trip to Vegas our rental car was a Fiat 500. I stood in the parking lot for a good 10 minutes pondering how the hell I was going to get just the two suitcases into the damn thing.

I found that packing for a long trip (2-3 weeks) doable in a Miata, if you have the "right" (custom) luggage and you pack light.




humfrz