Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[FT_Monk]

Originally Posted by Thatruth2001

We all want the bells and whistles, but the cost of the feature might become a turn off. Personally, I thnk Toyota should write Rob a fat ass check and incorporate the unit into an hybrid version of the car.

Here is a unit from a OEM supplier:

http://www.valeo.com/en/page-transve...ercharger.html

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Thatruth2001

Here is the funny thing ......Chinesse manufactures are looking at this thread and are attempting to develop a unit... Some have gone as far as contacting some people about testing and tuning.

Knowing how long it took Rob to R&D this unit I have a feeling there will be many knock offs around the corner.

Concerning modulation of the unit's output, I can send you about 20 emails debating it with Rob. At the end of the day is it achievable, yes but it becomes more complicated which leads to driving up costs.

We all want the bells and whistles, but the cost of the feature might become a turn off. Personally, I thnk Toyota should write Rob a fat ass check and incorporate the unit into an hybrid version of the car.

I was thinking the same thing about Toyota writing him a check lol and using it

[jamesm]

You could use an innovate ot-2. It has an api you can use to listen for what are basically pids from the obd2 over wifi, really fast if necessary. They have examples and docs on their site.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Pug

It's doable, if you want to do it. My problem is that sensing RPM on this engine seems to be a major PITA; the only "easy" way to do it that I've found is with an ODB connector.

The way I was originally planning to try was to add a Bluetooth module to my advanced monitor and use that to poll the RPM every 0.5 seconds (practical max) to decide to enable/disable/modulate the throttle switch, however my ELM327 bluetooth ODBII connector can't handle two masters, so that would mean Torque doesn't work. For this reason, I haven't bothered to build that in.

A more complex way is to tap the sensor lines leading to the ECU, like here: http://www.arduinoos.com/2013/08/engine-rpm-part-1/, but that's beyond my comfort level; it'd need a separate Arduino microcontroller just to handle that sensor, and then report back to the "main" microcontroller.

I'm afraid I'm not an EE, just a poor dirty mathematician and computer scientist; I'm having all manner of fun screwing up my monitor circuit each weekend and it isn't working yet

I just want to know how to tell the motor to turn at different speeds in the simplest of terms. What signal is supplied to the controller to tell it to turn at the rpm of choice? I'll worry about a circuit to send that signal: I just need to know what the signal is.

[Pug]

@mid_life_crisis: The throttle switch (+5VDC) can be pulse-width modulated with a transistor to vary the compressor motor speed, however I've been repeatably told the current system is not designed for constant operation.

There's no need to 'smooth-out' boost onset at WOT with a ramp-up, the boost addition feels natural there; it would be nice and reasonable to run lower boost when climbing a hill, for example. If we're WOT climbing a hill holding steady at 3.5k RPM for 5 minutes (Colorado?), it would be better to run at lower PSI for the whole climb than to reach the thermal limits and have the controller shut off the system to cool and recover.

Constant operation all the time will cause more drag on the alternator, increased wear of the compressor motor, greatly increased thermal management issues of both the compressor motor and the controller, as well as complicating the tune since it could engage when not the ECU was open loop... and probably other things that Rob has already thought through that I'm not educated enough to realize.

Really, the system feels awesome as-is; now that I have really gotten to play with it, I don't see the need to add much more complexity.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Pug

@mid_life_crisis: The throttle switch (+5VDC) can be pulse-width modulated with a transistor to vary the compressor motor speed, however I've been repeatably told the current system is not designed for constant operation.

Really, the system feels awesome as-is; now that I have really gotten to play with it, I don't see the need to add much more complexity.

I'm not looking to have constant operation. With the current state of battery technology that isn't feasible anyway.
I'm looking for a seamless way to limit boost at low rpm when the system is engaged (switch on, pedal to the floor) to protect the engine's bottom end and make it possible to run without a tune.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I'm not looking to have constant operation. With the current state of battery technology that isn't feasible anyway.
I'm looking for a seamless way to limit boost at low rpm when the system is engaged (switch on, pedal to the floor) to protect the engine's bottom end and make it possible to run without a tune.

I think this would be useful from what the reviewers have said, and it sounds like you have everything you need to know to do it.
It should be a pretty simple circuit, Id love to see what you come up with :happy0180:

[Pug]

Here's a picture of the throttle switch from my install; the red wire is carrying +5VDC from a voltage source, and the hidden wire (black) leads to an input on the controller. There's negligible current to worry about. Closing the circuit causes the controller to drive the compressor.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I think this would be useful from what the reviewers have said, and it sounds like you have everything you need to know to do it.
It should be a pretty simple circuit, Id love to see what you come up with :happy0180:

Yeah, all I need is a sample to experiment with.
I haven't done circuit design in eons. This will be interesting.
I agree that this should be a simple circuit. So I just send a pulsed 5 volt signal. I'm assuming that a continuous 5 volts is "full throttle" and as the pulses get shorter the thing slows down. Is there a particular frequency range it expects?

[Robftss]

Thatruth dyno.
Boost from 1800 rpm.
180 ft-lbs @ 2800 rpm
Similar gains to other dyno runs, best @ 4200 rpm
Wonky boost plot.
Nice AFR's Bob!!

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Robftss

Attachment 51579


Thatruth dyno.
Boost from 1800 rpm.
180 ft-lbs @ 2800 rpm
Similar gains to other dyno runs, best @ 4200 rpm
Wonky boost plot.
Nice AFR's Bob!!

Wow would you look at that, at a glance looks like about 50 lb-ft gain through the torque dip, and even about 25 lb-ft gain at 7000 rpm! That's a BIG gain for a 2700 lb car. Congrats!

Any theories on the oscillating boost curve in the upper rpms?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Wow would you look at that, at a glance looks like about 50 lb-ft gain through the torque dip, and even about 25 lb-ft gain at 7000 rpm! That's a BIG gain for a 2700 lb car. Congrats!

Any theories on the oscillating boost curve in the upper rpms?

I see ~70 in the dip at most and ~50 HP at 7400 rpm.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[tennisfreak]

Im interested but skeptical.

This goes against myth busters and countless other videos that have proven its impossible for an electric motor (in a cars engine bay, running on batteries) to produce boost.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by fenton

I see ~70 in the dip at most and ~50 HP at 7400 rpm.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

Yah I took a look at your last dyno posted in the thread, you are getting a bigger jump during the dip - your 7000 rpm looks to be a just a bit over 25, maybe 30 lb-ft. You and ThatTruth are at roughly the same altitude?

A side thought - would this system partially compensate for altitude? The thing is trying its hardest to force as much air as it can into the engine - if the air is thinner my intuition says it would at least partially make up for the deficit from altitude - in other words I'm wondering if you guys at altitude will see bigger gains than us at sea level? If that's the case, would the dyno's altitude compensation be optomistic? I'll be interested to see some low altitude dynos soon!