Seeking suggestions for Audiophile-centric HU

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

IMHO, it's mostly about the speakers. There's good DSP to get it just right for the driver but that destroys the soundstage for anyone else.

Eh. I can (and have) make cheap drivers sound decent. I can't fix a bad source or amp. Though you may notice I didn't entirely cheap out choosing drivers (assuming I built it...) so you're not wrong, either.



Of course, there's no way to add excursion which is part of where the stock door speakers fail; the stock amp also seems to have some distortion issues that contribute...


I don't even know if I'll bother with DSP. Will depend whether I can get a proper passive crossover in less weight than a good DSP.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Gents, this is going to sound snarky but I don't mean it that way, I'm seriously interested in knowing as I am NOT an auto-audiophile.

In a car as noisy as an 86 what could possibly come even close to satisfying someone in this car who really is an audiophile? I know what a great sound system sounds like when I hear it, but I just can't see the investment in the sound system in an 86 being worth the spend.

^^^^^^ This....warmed up for breakfast every day for a month. In a car this noisy, you'd have to be listening at ear-armageddon levels to hear everything that would normally be masked by the engine and road noise, and at that point, besides the obvious health risks to your hearing, it's so loud as to not be enjoyable. There really is no point. Yes, you can definitely improve upon the stock sound system, but keep in mind this car was designed with a tube to transfer MORE engine noise to the cockpit. Audiophile, meaning one with a true love of accurate, realistic reproduction of sounds faithful to the way they sounded when originally created? Not in this car, ever...or any car, really, but some platforms at least give you a fighting chance. Audiophile as in gear and/or volume/slam/thump lover, then sure....knock yourself out, but that's not really "audiophile," that's "gearphile," which is fineand fun, too.
Yeah, I'm kind of a music and audio snob....but I'm a friendly one. Have fun out there.....

[Ultramaroon]

Disagree. I argue that while it is an entirely different category, because material and tech are assembled in the pursuit of linearity, it is an equally valid audiophilistic exercise.

[MuseChaser]

Fair enough, and point taken. I'm on the other side of the fence because, although the pursuit may be noble and well-intentioned, you'd be starting that pursuit with virtually no chance of real success with this platform. I get wanting the system to be as good as it can be within sane cost restraints....just that for me, love of great sound and love of a great exciting driving experience don't intersect. Both are sublime experiences. I don't understand movie theaters that serve dinner, either....is the food so bad you need the movie to take your mind off it, or is the movie so boring you need food to keep you occupied? Drive and have decent sound, sure. My listening and mastering rooms sure don't have any slight background car driving sounds piped in, and my car sound system is always off when I'm truly DRIVING.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Fair enough, and point taken. I'm on the other side of the fence because, although the pursuit may be noble and well-intentioned, you'd be starting that pursuit with virtually no chance of real success with this platform. I get wanting the system to be as good as it can be within sane cost restraints....just that for me, love of great sound and love of a great exciting driving experience don't intersect. Both are sublime experiences. I don't understand movie theaters that serve dinner, either....is the food so bad you need the movie to take your mind off it, or is the movie so boring you need food to keep you occupied? Drive and have decent sound, sure. My listening and mastering rooms sure don't have any slight background car driving sounds piped in, and my car sound system is always off when I'm truly DRIVING.

I have never ever come close to being fooled by the reproduction. Great fidelity is an absolutely amazing thing to experience but it is still in pursuit of the unattainable.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I have never ever come close to being fooled by the reproduction. Great fidelity is an absolutely amazing thing to experience but it is still in pursuit of the unattainable.

Agreed, but with my usual few caveats. Running a 5 minute mile is pretty much unattainable for me, but I wouldn't elect to carry a cinder block during an attempt...
I HAVE come close to being fooled, but it's not going to happen with commercial recordings which are usually recorded and mastered to be larger than life in so many respects. Realism isn't usually the end goal. I have a recording of a solo tenor sax player playing by himself in a dead room, recorded as neutrally as possible with no compression, reverb, or any other processing. When that's played back on a specific one of my systems, it's really eery. With your eyes closed, you can point to every key on the saxophone, follow his slight head motions. With volume set at the same level as would be produced by a sax live, you're still correct...if A/B'd with a real sax player atanding there you'd never be fooled. BUT...it'd be close.
I've done a bunch of "scratch" recordings in my living room, always experimenting with different mics, placement, and techiques over the years. Since I don't keep or release those, I don't bother with a "sterile" room..let all of our mechanical chiming clocks continue to run, leave the yappy dog out, no "red light" on the front door, etc. Many times the dog will bark, my wife will call down from upstairs, or the clocks will chime. I can't tell the number of times I've been fooled on playback and actually answer her, shush the dog, or think it's 3pm (chimes) when it's 5:20.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I have never ever come close to being fooled by the reproduction. Great fidelity is an absolutely amazing thing to experience but it is still in pursuit of the unattainable.

Funny this discussion hasn't come up in the audiophile thread.


The only time I've ever heard a system that 'fooled' me is when it was playing in exactly the same venue in which the source was recorded.

Otherwise, any system that properly reproduces the acoustics of the recording results in a clear incongruity with the playback acoustics.

[czechm8]

Sounds like your needs are pretty basic. If you don't want/need a double DIN unit, NAV or maybe not even bluetooth.........there are lots of options. I haven'e been deep in the car audio circles for a few years, but something like an Alpine 9887 has lots of potential. I use one in my shop with a bunch of 12 volt gear on a DC power source.
The nice thing about this unit is that you can use the Alpine Imprint system to setup a couple different profiles with custom time alignment and FR tweaking.
Old school, but still a solid option.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by cjd

Funny this discussion hasn't come up in the audiophile thread.


The only time I've ever heard a system that 'fooled' me is when it was playing in exactly the same venue in which the source was recorded.

Otherwise, any system that properly reproduces the acoustics of the recording results in a clear incongruity with the playback acoustics.

Yes. Aren't many of us with listening spaces that would accommodate a symphonic orchestra, so the minute we hear one in our room we know it's fake. Everyone once in a while I'll hear a recording (usually two mics, either Blumlein or Jecklin disc configs) of a live orchestra in a space that, with your eyes closed, can do a surprisingly effective job transporting you TO that space, but there's really no way around the "I KNOW I'm in my listening room chair, so this is fake" handicap. We just do the best we can, eh?


Also, as you mentioned, there's the question of the acoustic signature of the venue. Even if you listen to the recording in the venue in which it was recorded, you're still hearing the original sonic signature of the venue on the recording PLUS the same sonic signature on it one more time upon playback, increasing the sound of the hall to an unnatural level, once again changing the original sound of the recording. I've had the best luck with great venues, very careful two-mic placement, and a fairly dead, irregularly shaped listening room. Speaker placement can be almost as key at that end of the chain as mic placement is at the beginning of the chain, dependent upon speaker design. I've got a pair of Maggies that I LOVE, but they have to be dialed in JUST right and you can't more your head more than a few inches if you want the soundstage to stay perfect.


As for the HU in a car, .... ummmm.... I have no idea. The last one I put in was an OEM replacement that had been refurbished in a '99 325i. Apologies for the thread drift.