Boosted BRZ/FR-S vs 997 Carrera S

[Bergen23]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya, I know. I even stated "random samples without shopping around". f course you can make either car as costly or as cheap to operate as you wish but on average the operating costs of the Porsche is going to greatly exceed most Twins.

Pretty sure the blinker fluid in the Porsche is going to be far more expensive than on the FR-S. When I had my first oil change done, the dealership told me my blinker fluid needed replacing and they only charged $20. Imagine how much it would be at a Porsche dealership!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Bergen23

Pretty sure the blinker fluid in the Porsche is going to be far more expensive than on the FR-S. When I had my first oil change done, the dealership told me my blinker fluid needed replacing and they only charged $20. Imagine how much it would be at a Porsche dealership!

Well as long as they didn't do what they did to me! The fools put the red in the right side and green in the left! Took a $500 flush to fix it.

[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I would imagine that a fully built motor would still put you in below the cost of the first for sure and probably the latter too.

Jaden

Dropping $5-7K on a forced induction setup, another $2.5K on brakes ticks the price of my current FR-S up to almost $40K (given full exhaust, wheels/tires). At $40K i'll take the car sorted out by engineers. I love my tuned FR-S, however it is a bit rough around the edges in a way an OEM car never is.

My current plan is to get some serious seat time in the Cayman S and see how much of an improved FR-S it really is.

[Turbowned]

I get 18-19mpg instead of 25-26mpg now... so there's that. It's $300/yr more expensive to insure (your results may vary). Consumables do cost more and you'll want to find a good independent Porsche technician to work on it if you're not handy turning your own wrenches. Obviously you shouldn't trust it to the minimum wage teenagers at Jiffy Lube (not that you should trust your FR-S/BRZ to them, either!)

If you buy a 996/997.1 or Cayman/Boxster with the port injected engine you will want to replace the IMS bearing if it hasn't been done already. The part itself is ~$800 and to pay someone to do it you should budget $2000 including the part. You shouldn't need to do it to the 996/997 Turbo or the 997.2/Cayman/Boxster with the direct injected engine. They are also known for cracking the plastic coolant expansion tanks which can be a bit of a PITA to replace; they turn yellow and crack with age. It's usually good to replace it, the water pump and thermostat all at once if you're dealing with a ~10yr old model. They're also known for having a wire off the alternator that's too small to provide sufficient grounding and it causes voltage drop and hard starting when hot. My car has this problem; it's $99 to fix through Suncoastparts.com

Had my 997 for three weeks now and I haven't looked back (I do miss the gorgeous Galaxy Blue color vs Arctic Silver, but that's it). I got invited to a Porsche driving experience at Thompson Speedway this past week where I got to thrash my 911 and a brand new Cayman S and Carrera 4S on the track; it totally validated my purchase! I have autocrossed my BRZ and driven a GT86 on the Nurburgring before and needless to say the 911 was much more satisfying to drive at the limit (assuming you have the driving skill - the BRZ is a better beginner's car). That being said, the consumable costs associated with racing a 911 are going to be higher than an FR-S/BRZ, stock-for-stock and mod-for-mod. You'll find that mods for the 911 cost as much as double, sometimes triple what they would cost for your average Japanese tuner car (I have no plans to modify mine like I did the BRZ; perhaps a set of OEM X51 headers, Fabspeed cold air kit and a Eurocharged ECU remap to bump the power up to ~380hp).

The 911 is also a much more pleasant car to daily drive. It has a slightly quieter cabin, considerably better stereo, less-notchy shifter, nice exhaust note, better steering feel, and of course, more power and torque. It's less twitchy on the highway and the suspension is slightly more composed although the fat rear tires do crash over bumps and tramline slightly on uneven surfaces. No bluetooth, nav, or satellite radio sucks but I plan to upgrade the head unit in the future.

I don't like the key being on the left hand side of the wheel, though! It's much more logical to insert the key on the right while you close the door with your left hand... Oh well; that's not going away anytime soon

[blackhawkdown]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I get 18-19mpg instead of 25-26mpg now... so there's that. It's $300/yr more expensive to insure (your results may vary). Consumables do cost more and you'll want to find a good independent Porsche technician to work on it if you're not handy turning your own wrenches. Obviously you shouldn't trust it to the minimum wage teenagers at Jiffy Lube (not that you should trust your FR-S/BRZ to them, either!)

If you buy a 996/997.1 or Cayman/Boxster with the port injected engine you will want to replace the IMS bearing if it hasn't been done already. The part itself is ~$800 and to pay someone to do it you should budget $2000 including the part. You shouldn't need to do it to the 996/997 Turbo or the 997.2/Cayman/Boxster with the direct injected engine. They are also known for cracking the plastic coolant expansion tanks which can be a bit of a PITA to replace; they turn yellow and crack with age. It's usually good to replace it, the water pump and thermostat all at once if you're dealing with a ~10yr old model. They're also known for having a wire off the alternator that's too small to provide sufficient grounding and it causes voltage drop and hard starting when hot. My car has this problem; it's $99 to fix through Suncoastparts.com

Had my 997 for three weeks now and I haven't looked back (I do miss the gorgeous Galaxy Blue color vs Arctic Silver, but that's it). I got invited to a Porsche driving experience at Thompson Speedway this past week where I got to thrash my 911 and a brand new Cayman S and Carrera 4S on the track; it totally validated my purchase! I have autocrossed my BRZ and driven a GT86 on the Nurburgring before and needless to say the 911 was much more satisfying to drive at the limit (assuming you have the driving skill - the BRZ is a better beginner's car). That being said, the consumable costs associated with racing a 911 are going to be higher than an FR-S/BRZ, stock-for-stock and mod-for-mod. You'll find that mods for the 911 cost as much as double, sometimes triple what they would cost for your average Japanese tuner car (I have no plans to modify mine like I did the BRZ; perhaps a set of OEM X51 headers, Fabspeed cold air kit and a Eurocharged ECU remap to bump the power up to ~380hp).

The 911 is also a much more pleasant car to daily drive. It has a slightly quieter cabin, considerably better stereo, less-notchy shifter, nice exhaust note, better steering feel, and of course, more power and torque. It's less twitchy on the highway and the suspension is slightly more composed although the fat rear tires do crash over bumps and tramline slightly on uneven surfaces. No bluetooth, nav, or satellite radio sucks but I plan to upgrade the head unit in the future.

I don't like the key being on the left hand side of the wheel, though! It's much more logical to insert the key on the right while you close the door with your left hand... Oh well; that's not going away anytime soon

MY2006 of porches had better IMS and RMS then the previous years. I too am looking into buying a 996 turbo or 987.2 Cayman S. The IMS doesn't cost $800. It is easy to install if your replacing your clutch; IMS and RMS are rare at that. MY2009+ no longer have IMS issues as they redesigned their engines.

[cdrazic93]

Ive always been a fan of the Cayman's. I knew of the 987.1 IMS problem, which was why I was looking at an 09 for the dreams. Since they haven't been around as long as the 911, I keep hearing that the Cayman hasn't lived up to the Porsche stigma of reliability, which is a good thing. Although yes, consumables are considerably more expensive. But for the car you're buying (3x the price of the 86 when it was new) is understandable. There's even 987.1/2 single(?) turbo kits that make it a GT3RS fighter, but that's a whole different ball game.

[blackhawkdown]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Ive always been a fan of the Cayman's. I knew of the 987.1 IMS problem, which was why I was looking at an 09 for the dreams. Since they haven't been around as long as the 911, I keep hearing that the Cayman hasn't lived up to the Porsche stigma of reliability, which is a good thing. Although yes, consumables are considerably more expensive. But for the car you're buying (3x the price of the 86 when it was new) is understandable. There's even 987.1/2 single(?) turbo kits that make it a GT3RS fighter, but that's a whole different ball game.

The 987.1 Cayman S has 295hp while the 2009+ Cayman S has the 3.4L Direct Injection engine 320hpish. The 987.2+ caymans are the refined versions of the later. But just because of that don't disregard the 987.1. The 987.1 IMS issues are very rare at that.

That being said, you can modify parts to increase power in a Cayman or Carrera all day long but you can't make a Mid-Engine Carrera. The RR layout on the Carrera is a turn off for me but a 996 Turbo is one hell of steal. Now only if I can afford the GT4 Cayman.

[serialk11r]

I think the best bang for the buck right now is the 987.2 base Cayman. I saw a 100k mile 2009 for something like 25k! More typical is like low 30s. The 981s look more high-end but for 30k, the exoticness per dollar is pretty high.

The 2.9L engine isn't DFI but it's the new architecture and makes solid power. It probably can make 280hp easily with light mods. Belt driven PS pump probably should be thrown out and replaced with an electric pump for reliability and some extra horsepower but other than that I couldn't find anything bad about those cars.

Plus, if you want to, you can make it extra lightweight by putting the aluminum Cayman R doors on or some similar replacement.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Ive always been a fan of the Cayman's. I knew of the 987.1 IMS problem, which was why I was looking at an 09 for the dreams. Since they haven't been around as long as the 911, I keep hearing that the Cayman hasn't lived up to the Porsche stigma of reliability, which is a good thing. Although yes, consumables are considerably more expensive. But for the car you're buying (3x the price of the 86 when it was new) is understandable. There's even 987.1/2 single(?) turbo kits that make it a GT3RS fighter, but that's a whole different ball game.

This comment confuses me. The "Porsche stigma" is actually one of great reliability (996 model non-withstanding). Either way, the Cayman is a very highly rated car for long term reliability.

As to OEM pricing, every Porsche owner should be aware of the following two resources:

www.http://sonnenporscheoemparts.com
http://www.suncoastparts.com/

Wholesale prices for OEM parts. Either of these resources will beat the pants off the average local Porsche dealership.

[Turbowned]

My starter failed this weekend. I knew it was on its way out as it would take a while to start, but I was hoping I could hold out until I brought it in for the IMS bearing upgrade. Looks like I'm getting the IMS bearing done now! Luckily my indy tech has the parts in stock and the starter won't be much or any extra labor considering he's already in there. $250 for a new Bosch starter (Porsche wanted $1,100 for their starter; get f**ked!), $120 for the updated alternator/starter wiring harness, and a bit under $2,000 for the IMS bearing upgrade. My work gave me a rental in the meantime, so all is well.

$2,000 for the IMS bearing upgrade is cheap insurance against a $20,000 engine replacement.

[Champster]

you should keep both. Actually I just bought both BRZ and 997.1 turbo just last week!
Since the roads around here are all messed up, I like to drive the BRZ more often that the 997. There's no need to be super careful about driving the BRZ, where as with the 997 turbo, I have to plan ahead of time about where I'm going to make sure I don't damage the car.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Champster

you should keep both. Actually I just bought both BRZ and 997.1 turbo just last week!
Since the roads around here are all messed up, I like to drive the BRZ more often that the 997. There's no need to be super careful about driving the BRZ, where as with the 997 turbo, I have to plan ahead of time about where I'm going to make sure I don't damage the car.

That would be nice! Congratulations on the purchases! My daily driver is an RS6, which apart from the terrible fuel economy is a nice, comfortable car that I can take anywhere, but is still very fun to drive!

3,000 miles in 1.5 months of ownership; I need to stop driving this thing so much!

[Racecomp Engineering]

FWIW.....my Cayman S is for sale ! ( post 63 )

(dont ask what I want to get to replace it)

Myles

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

FWIW.....my Cayman S is for sale ! ( post 63 )

(dont ask what I want to get to replace it)

Myles

PM details of the cayman.