follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-18-2019, 09:24 PM   #3683
CoolHandMoss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: VA
Posts: 305
Thanks: 1
Thanked 86 Times in 55 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
I wouldn't call 8k common, but it's not unheard of. For the '13-'16 cars bumping it up to ~7,600 is really common and gets you ~60mph, going to 8k gets you ~63 mph. The '17+ MT cars have a shorter final drive.
http://www.precisionsite.com/auto-x/tools/

I played with the math for the first time ever, if you're on the rev limiter for 1s at 7,600 rpm you can cover the same distance in ~0.95s at 8k rpm 63mph so if you can maximize it you're looking at up to 0.05s gained there and that's a linear scale so 2s at the 7.6k rev limiter is 1.9s at 8k rpm, 3s v 2.85s, etc. And that's being favorable to the higher rev limit as I'm not bothering to portion out the time it takes to rev past the lower rev limiter and get up to your new max speed.

risk vs reward, I throw away far more than a tenth of a second on dumb mistakes so upping the rev limiter isn't a priority for me, but avoiding engine troubles is.
Very helpful maths there. Thank you for doing that.
CoolHandMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 09:53 PM   #3684
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
@KevBRZ No hot tires in 235/40/17, 0.2" diameter is nothing, same with the ~2lbs you're saving over the ~17lb wheels everyone else has but sacrificing 1" per corner in grip.

Why are you doing this again? It certainly isn't about saving money at this point because you can get a set of 17x9's for less than a set of uncompetitive tires. Tirerack will sell you 17x9s with 245/40/17 RE71R's mounted and balanced for $1,400 and they'll show up at your doorstep before next weekend.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to strat61caster For This Useful Post:
KevBRZ (07-18-2019)
Old 07-18-2019, 10:07 PM   #3685
KevBRZ
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 15BRZ
Location: PA
Posts: 92
Thanks: 44
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
@KevBRZ No hot tires in 235/40/17, 0.2" diameter is nothing, same with the ~2lbs you're saving over the ~17lb wheels everyone else has but sacrificing 1" per corner in grip.

Why are you doing this again? It certainly isn't about saving money at this point because you can get a set of 17x9's for less than a set of uncompetitive tires. Tirerack will sell you 17x9s with 245/40/17 RE71R's mounted and balanced for $1,400 and they'll show up at your doorstep before next weekend.
Why am I doing this--(Cuz i am crazy and kinda like my ampliforms - although just found them in 17 x 9 +40 just now lol)
and yeah your right you really don't save much.
Yeah i already have been inquiring on some 17 x 9 enkei rpf1s new and some other used wheels etc. lol was thinking of going 245/40 rivals, never tried them before. Not sure if they are any less favorable on a daily with the stone pick up than the RE71s, used to dread driving on a gravely road with those re71s on a hot day hearing the gravel crushing the car but it is what it is. (#becauseracecar) Honestly maybe because i haven't had any top tier tires for awhile but i am starting to dig the SSC falkens at the moment for street driving. Seem a little quirky at the limit though.I really need to get this car going to hit some events asap

Last edited by KevBRZ; 07-18-2019 at 10:17 PM.
KevBRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 10:45 PM   #3686
cjd
Senior Member
 
cjd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2017 BRZ
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,283
Thanks: 1,253
Thanked 2,925 Times in 1,712 Posts
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I rev to 7950 and will be going up to 255/40.

It's about not shifting as often. Last event I just stayed in third for nearly a quarter of the course... Long sweeper. Lost some not revving out as fast, maybe gained not upsetting the car mid turn. Never will know if it was the right call.

C
__________________
Second chance build... or whatever it is.
cjd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 03:00 AM   #3687
Locust
Custom User Title
 
Locust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Drives: 2015 Scion FR-S, 2012 OB Evo X MR
Location: Seattle
Posts: 807
Thanks: 13
Thanked 424 Times in 272 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Locust
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevBRZ View Post
I know the sound/ normal thing seems to go with 17 x 9 245/40/17s for ultimate grip or like guys above the 255s for massive grip, but besides the top end situation, what about the increased weight? Part of my brain wants to put super lightweight wheels in 17 x 8 with lighter 235 /40 tires to decrease overall weight and gain some gearing due to the shorter tire also to get a better dig out of the hole,also thinking because these cars are tourqueless wonders lol , i guess i am thinking more shorter geared tighter events, i imagine that situation would hurt top end faster courses though....just thinking and probably too much as usual lol & maybe because i am already sitting on 17 x 8s
I wouldn't waste time trying to reinvent the wheel. 245/40/17 on 17x9 is the standard setup for a reason and these cars have been out for a long time in this class. There's a little wiggle room going up to 255s but no one is playing around with smaller wheel sizes anymore because it's not beneficial.
__________________
LOCUST
2015 FR-S (STX) and 2012 Evo X MR

Instagram:
LocustAutoX
Sponsors:
DSGPerformance Drift Office Evil Apex Racing

Locust is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Locust For This Useful Post:
KevBRZ (07-22-2019)
Old 07-22-2019, 11:43 AM   #3688
KevBRZ
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 15BRZ
Location: PA
Posts: 92
Thanks: 44
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
re: wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locust View Post
I wouldn't waste time trying to reinvent the wheel. 245/40/17 on 17x9 is the standard setup for a reason and these cars have been out for a long time in this class. There's a little wiggle room going up to 255s but no one is playing around with smaller wheel sizes anymore because it's not beneficial.
i like your pun - "reinvent the wheel" lol and yeah i already got my 17 x 8s with Falkens up for sale and looks like +35 is the magic offset also, i was gonna get a new set of ampliforms in 17 x 9 +40 but don't want to end up taking a chance and having to do any spacers etc. so shopping for 17 x 9s + 35 ATM
KevBRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 12:38 PM   #3689
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevBRZ View Post
i like your pun - "reinvent the wheel" lol and yeah i already got my 17 x 8s with Falkens up for sale and looks like +35 is the magic offset also, i was gonna get a new set of ampliforms in 17 x 9 +40 but don't want to end up taking a chance and having to do any spacers etc. so shopping for 17 x 9s + 35 ATM
+40 fits perfectly, I have +45's and use them with a 5mm spacer as I rub the inner fender at full lock without the spacers

TC105's come in +35, RPF1 comes in +45 and +35 and so people pick +35's so they don't have to run spacers hence the 'go with +35's' sentiment
Tirerack sells RPF1's for this car in +45 fwiw, you'll be fine on the +40's
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly

Last edited by strat61caster; 07-22-2019 at 01:27 PM.
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to strat61caster For This Useful Post:
KevBRZ (07-23-2019)
Old 07-22-2019, 11:39 PM   #3690
Shadotracker
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: 2018 Subaru BRZ TS
Location: Texas
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Welp, it looks like I'm joining the big boy group in STX. I finally had time to install the KW v3s that I've had sitting around for some time.

Going to get an alignment either tomorrow or Wednesday.
Shadotracker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shadotracker For This Useful Post:
Clutch Dog (08-11-2019), strat61caster (07-23-2019)
Old 08-18-2019, 09:55 PM   #3691
cueball89
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Drives: 23 BRZ 15 Impreza
Location: NY
Posts: 160
Thanks: 58
Thanked 76 Times in 50 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I don't see the 245/45/17 re71r mention for increasing the top speed in 2nd, does it not fit? According to the calculator it's good for 60.8 mph @7400rpm. Its appealing to me because I don't have a tune. I hit the rev limiter ~5 times per run today and shifted to 3rd crossing the finish.
cueball89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 12:57 AM   #3692
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89 View Post
I don't see the 245/45/17 re71r mention for increasing the top speed in 2nd, does it not fit? According to the calculator it's good for 60.8 mph @7400rpm. Its appealing to me because I don't have a tune. I hit the rev limiter ~5 times per run today and shifted to 3rd crossing the finish.
I think you'll give up torque to dig out of the slow stuff, not something this car has much of to spare. You'll feel the taller 'gearing' on every slower corner (If you're under 35mph in 2nd you're in the 'torque dip') for a few tenths of a second advantage the few times you get up to speed, how many slower sections do you have vs the time spent up over 55mph?

Being on the rev limiter a bit isn't bad, shifting to 3rd will happen even with the extra legs, it's not uncommon to see 65-70 mph speeds at National style courses these days with FRZ levels of power.

Looks like it'll fit depending on the ride height, wheel offset, and alignment:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=50
Those are 18" wheels, tire diameter is close to 26" based on RE71R sizes.


There's also fewer compound options and it messes up the speedo, but minor annoyances not dealbreakers if it's what you think you want. Real easy to test if this works if you happen to have SoloStorm running and can swap tires between runs or do fun runs after.

Big commitment financially vs a $500 OFT that shouldn't be tough to resell for $400 if you go all in on a power setup and get ECUtek tuning down the road.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to strat61caster For This Useful Post:
cueball89 (08-19-2019)
Old 08-21-2019, 08:06 PM   #3693
cueball89
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Drives: 23 BRZ 15 Impreza
Location: NY
Posts: 160
Thanks: 58
Thanked 76 Times in 50 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
Looks like it'll fit depending on the ride height, wheel offset, and alignment:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=50
Those are 18" wheels, tire diameter is close to 26" based on RE71R sizes.

Funny enough while swapping my autox wheel and tire setup yesterday I noticed light rubbing on top of the fender well. 245/45/17 might require some adjustments if I go that route.
cueball89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 12:23 PM   #3694
Chickeneatman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Drives: 2013 FR-S Ultramarine
Location: MN
Posts: 38
Thanks: 11
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Hi All,
I have finally finished reading every page in this thread from the beginning. I took me over a month spending my downtime at work reading this. Boy was that a journey. It has been very interesting to see the builds change from the beginning to now. It has also been interesting to see people come in and out of this thread.
Anyway, Two weeks ago I picked up my '13 Ultramarine FRS, and last week threw on some 17x9 +40 Konig Ultraforms w/ 245/40/17 RE71Rs. On the 18th I competed in my local AutoX for the first time with my FRS. (I have done about 10 other AutoX with a 89 MR2 Supercharged) I was blown away by just how amazing this car feels! That being said; I have planned on doing an STX build from the beginning.

Tires and wheels are done. What do you guys suggest as the next mod? From what I have gathered it sounds like coilovers will be the next most beneficial mod. I also definitely need more camber. I really like how the RCE Tarmac 2 look for price and performance. I remember someone mentioning how softer springs could be beneficial for these cars. Did that end up going anywhere?

I will slowly over the winter months be building the car up and learning how each mod affects the car.

Thanks for all the good information in this thread!
Chickeneatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 02:10 PM   #3695
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: copy copy copy
If you don't know an autocrosser who is happy with the setup I'd pass on it. Buying the right stuff the first time and using a baseline setup that is known to work well can save years of frustration developing something that may not be optimal. Set a target, find out who has what you want whether it's multiple National Championship wins, a setup on a budget, or a comfortable fun DD that can win a local. imho coilovers and alignment are next so you don't burn up a set of RE71R's prematurely due to lack of camber, it'll be the difference between 70 runs on the tires or 140 before you run out of tread. Make sure camber plates come quick if they're not included, -3° to -4° and more is the norm when it comes to front camber.

For pointy end max-competition stuff the Chang/Lugod machine is hard to beat, get in touch with OS Giken and/or Mann Engineering, you can do it on a budget but it'll be on higher end of the package costs. I'd put money on a ProParts Megan car winning this year with Heitkotter behind the wheel (I'm copying the ProParts/JeffWong/Tony_R setup but I'd expect Teddie and Bryan have deviated from that by now). People have trophied on a lot of different stuff (MCS, KW/RCE, Feal, I'm sure someone has JRZ's or Penske's but idk who) and there's decades of experience with the car+class at this point with quite a few people I'd happily take advice from. Good Luck.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 04:03 PM   #3696
steverife
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2016 Scion FRS
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 457
Thanks: 52
Thanked 275 Times in 181 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So I talked to one of the guys that I ran SSC against last year the other day. From the SSC setup, he added 17x9's, 245 RE71R's, coilovers and plates ( think he said KW's), and swapped to the stock rear bar. Stock power, stock tune.

...and he is decently competitive in his local "pro" class against a lot of national drivers at a site that draws people from across the SE for locals. He won an event this year, too.

So you can go a very long way with coilovers/plates, rear LCA's if you need them to get the alignment right, and a bigger front bar.

From there, you can pick a header/tune, and then do small things as you see fit.
steverife is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steverife For This Useful Post:
strat61caster (08-22-2019)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on a "component" setup with a 3.5" dash and 6.5" door setup? PatrickSAN Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 22 11-14-2012 02:12 PM
SCCA sway bar rules gmookher Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 0 09-01-2012 06:48 PM
Suggestion for vendor rules... Tainen Site Announcements / Questions / Issues 31 08-15-2012 01:53 PM
Rules for posting in this section Hachiroku User/Vendor/Sponsor Reviews, Feedback, Comments 0 06-25-2012 11:02 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.