05-24-2019, 02:44 PM | #43 |
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Fascinating stuff. I have a number of questions I'mm still trying to formulate. Thanks to the OP for the work and the willingness to publish it.
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05-24-2019, 03:26 PM | #44 | |
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05-24-2019, 04:30 PM | #45 | ||
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05-24-2019, 04:41 PM | #46 |
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Please do elaborate!
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05-24-2019, 05:14 PM | #47 |
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I have to confess Mike, that I don't quite understand your point. It seems to me that addressing the symptoms would be using thicker oil, weird additives or something of that sort. It seems the OP is exploring the structural/design causes of the oiling problem itself and proposing/testing solutions. Am I missing something?
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Last edited by Capt Spaulding; 05-24-2019 at 05:37 PM. |
05-24-2019, 05:17 PM | #48 | |
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Maybe he didn’t read the whole thread? |
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05-24-2019, 06:43 PM | #49 | |
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I think those links don't apply fully to our pump because those are gear pumps whereas ours is a gerotor pump with bilateral charge and discharge. The oil flow to the pump pockets is very different. To tell you the truth we would need a pressure model showing how the oil's instantaneous pressure changes in our pump while it passes through our pump. My main reason to sustain that in our pump cavitation is happening in the inlet side is that the erosion marks we've found (yours looks a lot like mine) in our pump are very typical of cavitation erotion and I can't think of what else could cause this. This together with my low inlet pressure measurements convinced me. @Horrid_Funk's post about higher viscosity protecting from cavitation is also very interesting, although I think it's more related to cavitation damage itself (the erosion) than the starvation damage due to the pump's oil flow deteriorating when cavitation happens. All in all I think there's still a lot to learn (at least for me) and the insight of someone with expert knowledge and experience in this particular matter would be greatly appreciated.
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05-24-2019, 08:26 PM | #50 | |
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Are the enlarged passages even necessary? While my engine is only one data point, it is a very strong data point, given the number of hours on my engine, as well as the power level which may be comparable to the OP. I've intentionally been running this until it fails, to see what ACTUALLY fails, when prepped to the best of my ability. I don't have any of the issues the OP is having, and I believe many of the issues are self induced. I run 0W20 and 5W30, depending on ambient temps, and my oil temps never exceed 230F. My turbo is oil cooled. A flat 4 struggles with oil return; without a dry sump, I don't think increasing oil flow volume is a good idea; you'll just drain your pan faster without refilling it under cornering. |
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05-24-2019, 08:31 PM | #51 | |
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3/4" is almost exactly 19mm. Just an FYI for anyone reading this. |
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05-24-2019, 08:40 PM | #52 |
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@Irace86.2.0Irace86.2.0 I've inspected and measured almost every oil gallery in this engine. I've also used the Hagen–Poiseuille equation to estimate and compare flow characteristics in the different galleries. Like you say, the most important variable is the radius of the gallery.
From all the galleries, I found that there are some drillings that seem to be used to control the proportion of flow that each part gets: - Both heads have 8.0 mm drillings on their entrance - Main bearing galleries 1,2,3,4,5 have: 5.5, 3.5, 6.5, 3.5, 5.5 mm drillings. I think all galleries before this drillings should provide as low a pressure drop as possible to improve system efficiency: more overall flow, less pressure at the pump's outlet (which makes the PRV recirculate less oil), less friction losses, same or less power cost to drive the pump. For the inlet, to keep the pressure as high as possible (atmosphere in our case) is the objective in my opinion.
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05-24-2019, 09:55 PM | #53 | |
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In the end, what he's doing is an experiment. Several other members have had similar ideas and implemented some of them. They may all go "kerblamo," but it's also possible they've hit on what the guys at ET are doing. I don't mean to offend, but this sort of engineering/experimentation is interesting (particularly when somebody else is doing the work and footing the bill).
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05-24-2019, 10:24 PM | #54 |
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Some useful data now would be a comparison of oils under vacuum and heat until they cavitate.
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05-24-2019, 10:42 PM | #55 | ||
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Because when I first read it I was like wow but then I found this. You are also running a higher cst than a thicker oil at higher tempatures. |
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05-25-2019, 12:12 AM | #56 | |
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For those reading, My 5W30's viscosity at ~225F is approximately equal to 40 weight oil at ~245F, or a 50 weight oil at ~280F. This is also ~~0W20 at ~210F. For reference, I use Motul 300V. |
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