follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 1st Gens: Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ > BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics

BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #29
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,119
Thanks: 18,091
Thanked 16,254 Times in 7,347 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
Not at all. The turbo-charged WRX comes in @$28K and has a far more complex and costly AWD drivetrain as well. A FA20DIT or FA24DIT swap wouldn’t be anywhere near the Zupra’s B58 engine. Also, the emissions thing has already been figured out. Those FADIT engines exist today.
Ever heard of "economy of scale"? They sell vastly more variations of Imprezza's which effects the price/cost of all Imprezza models.

We talk about this all the time at work whenever sales get this idea to come out with a new model. They get a and are shown the numbers, and how many of this new model they would have to sell to cover just the development cost. Then they go back to hiding in their hole.

I'd like to see an actual WRX at an actual dealership with a 28K sticker. Just because the SOA website shows the WRX starting there, doesn't mean dealers actually order them spec'd that way. Current model year too, not old new stock carry over.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #30
bcj
Geo Tyrebighter Esq
 
bcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: '13 scion fr-s
Location: pnw
Posts: 4,159
Thanks: 6,259
Thanked 4,949 Times in 2,182 Posts
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
The only complaints I always hear are lack of torque.

The car is perfect, other than the lack of torque.
Heard from other bench racers that have never driven one either.

Have another look at the torque curve.
Huge initial low torque that's ideal for city work and 1-2 gear corners in the hills.
I've had mine up at that altitude as well many times.
All I'm hearing is the Mo Powa trombone tune in a different key.

Hertzawurlitzer or whoever the CO dealer is was selling every one that they could latch onto.
They were selling deep into surrounding states too because they could cut the price closer than Scion with the one price deal.
The 9 to 1 production Toy to Sub didn't help the situation that much.
__________________
--
"I gotta rock." -- Charley Brown
bcj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2020, 03:26 PM   #31
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,119
Thanks: 18,091
Thanked 16,254 Times in 7,347 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload View Post
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself
This doesn't use any special ram air intake now does it?
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
KR-S (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:29 PM   #32
The Red One
Planning summer road trip
 
The Red One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Drives: 2019 Sport-tech RS. City car: GD3
Location: Mtl south shore
Posts: 661
Thanks: 887
Thanked 878 Times in 457 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
The only complaints I always hear are lack of torque.
The car is perfect, other than the lack of torque.
I bought a 2019 because I thought they could be endangered and its long production run possibly be stopped.
This type of CHEAP, simple, NA, high rev, light, RWD car is getting to be unique with all the turbo, EV & hybrid SUV push of the market. Turbo & auto only were off my shopping list.
I for one like a responsive high rev motor.


I only notice some missing torque when im lazy and it's called character...
Need a bit of extra passing power: A well kept secret is to Downshift …

Every Car/SUV/Truck is not made to serve everybody and if so that would be boring!

The Red One is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to The Red One For This Useful Post:
Larphraulen (01-31-2020), Opie (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:30 PM   #33
KR-S
Sporadic Member
 
KR-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: 2016 Halo FR-S M/T
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,145
Thanks: 5,221
Thanked 3,552 Times in 1,746 Posts
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 33 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
This doesn't use any special ram air intake now does it?
Name:  This is my secret to 221 wheel horsepower.jpg
Views: 448
Size:  151.0 KB

Though in this case, 300 horsepower...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by klearfade View Post
Is that gel in your hair?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HueyLooie View Post
Nah, homes. It's your dadda's hot goopey goop.
KR-S is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KR-S For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:40 PM   #34
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,119
Thanks: 18,091
Thanked 16,254 Times in 7,347 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by KR-S 86 View Post
Attachment 184299

Though in this case, 300 horsepower...
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJI9fNudnQ[/ame]

LOL Right. If there was a tuner making 300 crank HP NA, on E85 even. People would be fighting to get in line like it was the last Popeye's chicken sandwich.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
KR-S (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:47 PM   #35
KR-S
Sporadic Member
 
KR-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: 2016 Halo FR-S M/T
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,145
Thanks: 5,221
Thanked 3,552 Times in 1,746 Posts
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 33 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post


LOL Right. If there was a tuner making 300 crank HP NA, on E85 even. People would be fighting to get in line like it was the last Popeye's chicken sandwich.
300 hp N/A Subaru boxer 4s do exist... though I highly doubt they were achieved with basic bolt-ons.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by klearfade View Post
Is that gel in your hair?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HueyLooie View Post
Nah, homes. It's your dadda's hot goopey goop.
KR-S is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KR-S For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:48 PM   #36
Broseph
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: Subaru
Location: CO
Posts: 63
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Ever heard of "economy of scale"? They sell vastly more variations of Imprezza's which effects the price/cost of all Imprezza models.

We talk about this all the time at work whenever sales get this idea to come out with a new model. They get a and are shown the numbers, and how many of this new model they would have to sell to cover just the development cost. Then they go back to hiding in their hole.

I'd like to see an actual WRX at an actual dealership with a 28K sticker. Just because the SOA website shows the WRX starting there, doesn't mean dealers actually order them spec'd that way. Current model year too, not old new stock carry over.
What better way to have economies of scale than use an existing, proven power plant?
They’re already committing to a brand new, ground-up platform. They threw economies of scale out the window when they made that decision.

I live next the worlds biggest Subaru dealer. They have tons of WRX trims all the time. From bare-bones base models to loaded Limiteds.
Broseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2020, 03:52 PM   #37
Broseph
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: Subaru
Location: CO
Posts: 63
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload View Post
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����
No. This makes no sense. Modding / tuning N/A 4-bangers is an uphill battle. No way they’re getting that with just a tune.
Broseph is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Broseph For This Useful Post:
KR-S (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:57 PM   #38
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload View Post
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����
Links?
It would be a shock to many if even one word of this was accurate.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
KR-S (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:57 PM   #39
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,119
Thanks: 18,091
Thanked 16,254 Times in 7,347 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by KR-S 86 View Post
300 hp N/A Subaru boxer 4s do exist... though I highly doubt they were achieved with basic bolt-ons.


Yeah I remember there was a shop trying to get their GC8 up there. We haven’t seen an FA do it yet though.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
KR-S (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:59 PM   #40
weederr33
Airborne at your service
 
weederr33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: '17 BRZ Series.Yellow
Location: El Paso, Texas
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 4,522
Thanked 5,569 Times in 2,921 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
Admittedly, this is more a problem for high-altitude folks, less-so for the sea-level folks.
So, selfishly, yeah we'd all like more usable power up here. That's what you do up here when you want power - go FI. I'd prefer to have that from the factory. And while the M2Comp and Supra are great cars - driven both extensively, I'm trying to go a different direction this time with more of a more raw/mechanical experience vs a more luxury coupe.

Already have done the modded, tuned, catless, RWD 6MT BMW Twin Turbo Coupe thing. It was fun, I'd like something with a little less heft, bulk and mechanical complexity which I think is totally doable with a factory turbo'd BRZ.
You claim you have a modded and tuned BMW, why not get a BRZ and then turbo or supercharge it like many others have before? O_o
__________________
Series.Yellowbird - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122135

MS, CSCS, TSAC-F, CPT
weederr33 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to weederr33 For This Useful Post:
KR-S (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020), Tcoat (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 04:00 PM   #41
Sapphireho
Pressure fried
 
Sapphireho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: '15 ultramarine
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,160
Thanks: 5,444
Thanked 18,204 Times in 8,592 Posts
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payload View Post
This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����
Only January and already have the front runner for "Stupidest post of the year".
Sapphireho is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Sapphireho For This Useful Post:
HachiRokuX (01-25-2020), KR-S (01-25-2020), Lantanafrs2 (01-25-2020), NoHaveMSG (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020), Tcoat (01-25-2020), The Red One (01-25-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 04:05 PM   #42
KR-S
Sporadic Member
 
KR-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: 2016 Halo FR-S M/T
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,145
Thanks: 5,221
Thanked 3,552 Times in 1,746 Posts
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 33 Thread(s)
The dude making the 300 hp claim is from New York... wonder if he pulled his info from Mike Cina.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by klearfade View Post
Is that gel in your hair?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HueyLooie View Post
Nah, homes. It's your dadda's hot goopey goop.
KR-S is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KR-S For This Useful Post:
Lantanafrs2 (01-25-2020), soundman98 (01-25-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts? adjusts Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 17 11-23-2016 09:25 AM
THOUGHTS? Darkparadox911 Southern California 11 07-23-2015 12:37 AM
Any thoughts? imjuice Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 16 05-17-2014 01:35 PM
Thoughts on this. Style Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 24 08-03-2012 01:59 AM
Brief thoughts on my new FR-S mickey177 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 8 06-17-2012 03:37 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.