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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 04-21-2019, 10:07 PM   #1
showrun
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HPDE tires - 2019 edition

Hello folks,

Bought a bone-stock 2015 FR-S a couple weeks ago as dedicated HPDE car. I drive the car to/from racetracks, and that's it. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, so rain is always a possibility.

I have done JR radiator/oil cooler, Castrol SRF, Carbotech XP10.

I'm a low intermediate driver in terms of skills. I did a lot of HPDEs several years back in a C6 Corvette. I just did my 1st HPDE in the FR-S. The stock tires are limiting. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I feel even my limited skills could use a better tire.

I've googgled. Watched videos on TireRack. Read GRM.
I've read a bunch of older threads. Things change every year.
I'd like to discuss tire options for 2019. I'm leaning towards keeping the stock wheels, but open to going to a wider 17" wheel if it won't hinder my learning. Cost is not really a factor.

So far I'm looking at:
DUNLOP DIREZZA ZII STAR SPEC (there is some old stock left)
DUNLOP DIREZZA ZIII
HANKOOK VENTUS R-S4
YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD08 R
Azenis RT615k+ (added per Vesartis)

Thoughts?

Last edited by showrun; 04-21-2019 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:33 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by showrun View Post
Hello folks,

Bought a bone-stock 2015 FR-S a couple weeks ago as dedicated HPDE car. I drive the car to/from racetracks, and that's it. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, so rain is always a possibility.

I have done JR radiator/oil cooler, Castrol SRF, Carbotech XP10.

I'm a low intermediate driver in terms of skills. I did a lot of HPDEs several years back in a C6 Corvette. I just did my 1st HPDE in the FR-S. The stock tires are limiting. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I feel even my limited skills could use a better tire.

I've googgled. Watched videos on TireRack. Read GRM.
I've read a bunch of older threads. Things change every year.
I'd like to discuss tire options for 2019. I'm leaning towards keeping the stock wheels, but open to going to a wider 17" wheel if it won't hinder my learning. Cost is not really a factor.

So far I'm looking at:
DUNLOP DIREZZA ZII STAR SPEC (there is some old stock left)
DUNLOP DIREZZA ZIII
HANKOOK VENTUS R-S4
YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD08 R

Thoughts?
I just finished off a set of Falken Azenis RT615k+ in stock size (215/45R17) on stock wheels. I started on the stock Michelins, and when those were done I finished off some slightly used RS-3s and then got the Falkens for track use and the Continental Extreme Contact Sports for daily driving.

The Falkens keep the direct steering feel of the stock tires, while bringing up the grip levels significantly. They handle the heat pretty well, as long as pressures are set well (around 31-32 psi hot for me). They break away very progressively, so you can comfortably explore the limits. They don't ride any firmer than stock, and don't have any crazy pattern noise issues like some other tires. Since they aren't directional, just asymmetrical, you can rotate them around the car to even out wear. I found them very nice for learning, and got 5 track days and an autocross out of them. (Some 100+F days with slightly high pressures accelerated wear a bit more than expected) I highly recommend them for learning, just maybe not the most competitive tire.

Of the options you mentioned, I see a lot of RS-4s at the track. From what I hear, good grip and good wear rate, so overall good value. I might try them down the road.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:08 PM   #3
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What are you looking in a tire?
Lowest laptimes?
Good for learning?
Low cost? (maybe not if cost is not really a factor)

Stock tires and cheap tires (SX2, RSRR, RT615K) are great for learning, but you will go slower initially.
Some good info here:
https://yousuckatracing.wordpress.co...aining-wheels/

BTW: You will likely want to increase your front camber for less understeer and longer tire life. Camber bolts are easy. Or camber plates.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:15 PM   #4
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Stock tires limiting you how? If you're anything like me, the driver is the limiting factor. @CSG Mike_Mike got a video of a lap somewhere on stock tires?

Last edited by EAGLE5; 04-21-2019 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Third try trying to tag Mike.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:18 PM   #5
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Vesartis: thank you, I added the Azenis RT615k+ to my list.

treedodger: thank you.
1) Good for learning, with some squealing before the limit and progressive loss of traction
2) Able to withstand a 30 minute session on a hot day, and last at least 5 track days. Just because I don't want to worry about replacing tires too often..
3) More grip than stock tire. The stock tire squeals so much that I can't use sound as an indicator of grip. And I find myself wanting to carry more speed in a corner but can't. And I find myself braking too early and too softly because I don't trust the tire.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:24 PM   #6
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Stock tires limiting you how? If you're anything like me, the driver is the limiting factor. @CSG Mike_Mike got a video of a lap somewhere on stock tires?
No doubt, a good driver could be a lot faster than me on stock tires.

But still, going through corners, when I get the line right, I want more speed. And if I accelerate just a little, I can tell I'm at the tires' limit.

Also, I did lead/follow with an instructor in a current M3, on a very wet track, focusing on the chicane at PIR. I could follow her tire marks in the wet. It was like the line on Forza. I took the chicane on the same line at the same slow speed... and started spinning in turn 2. Frustrating.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:41 PM   #7
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Also, I did lead/follow with an instructor in a current M3, on a very wet track, focusing on the chicane at PIR. I could follow her tire marks in the wet. It was like the line on Forza. I took the chicane on the same line at the same slow speed... and started spinning in turn 2. Frustrating.
Wet is a different thing to consider, the stock Michelins especially lacked traction in wet conditions. I have not tried the Falkens in any water. You might need to consider that more heavily depending on how frequently you plan to track in the wet.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:49 PM   #8
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My goal is to do as little wet driving as possible. But rain happens and I don't want to lose half a track day when it does.
I know driving in the wet is good for learning. I've done it before in other cars. But yeah, with the stock tires, it was so bad that it was a waste of time.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:54 PM   #9
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I spun out at Laguna Seca in the wet on Michelin AS/3. Debeaded a tire. Not sure anything's gonna help in the pouring rain.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by treedodger View Post
BTW: You will likely want to increase your front camber for less understeer and longer tire life. Camber bolts are easy. Or camber plates.
I was thinking I'd wait a little before buying rear LCA and camber plates.

In the meanwhile, the only cheap option is front camber bolts. Do those make sense with the stock rear LCA? Or is camber front and rear something that needs to be adjusted all or nothing?

And is "RSRR" the Federal 595RS-RR?
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:13 AM   #11
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I was thinking I'd wait a little before buying rear LCA and camber plates.

In the meanwhile, the only cheap option is front camber bolts. Do those make sense with the stock rear LCA? Or is camber front and rear something that needs to be adjusted all or nothing?
I am on stock suspension with front camber bolts. Stock alignment has front camber basically at zero, that really tears up the outside shoulder and tends to induce understeer. With just the camber bolts at a max of -1.4 in the front, I have seen much better tire wear and improved turn in. It obviously not the ideal track-dedicated setup, but it's pretty cheap and worth it if you aren't doing the full setup soon.
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:24 AM   #12
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I was thinking I'd wait a little before buying rear LCA and camber plates.

And is "RSRR" the Federal 595RS-RR?
Yes.

Regarding camber bolts, what Vesartis said. Do it. Otherwise, the 86 is good to go, and it's superb platform to learn car control. Not too sticky tires and rain will accelerate the learning process. It is all about becoming comfortable with slip angle.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:03 AM   #13
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My experience has been that RS4s hold up really well to heat here in Texas as far as wear rate on track, but they are kind of dicey in the wet. The AD08Rs I have on now perform much better under wet conditions. Given you'll be potentially be in the wet and that PNW isn't Texas, I'd suggest you give the AD08Rs a try. In the end, you'll have to pick a set to start with and try them out, and see what you think yourself.

Also definitely get some camber bolts if you aren't doing top plates.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:26 AM   #14
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Maxxis VR1 comes in 215/40ZR17 that would fit on the stock rims. I just started using these tires have a couple sessions on them and they seem like good tires similar to RS4s.
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