follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Xero Limit
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > FT86CLUB Shared Forum > FR-S / BRZ vs....

FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-23-2015, 02:47 PM   #85
Sideways&Smiling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: AP2 S2000, S14 240sx
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 967
Thanks: 446
Thanked 484 Times in 288 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
Well, if you're asking me @Frost, I'd go with as nice of an AP S2000 that you can find/afford. I've owned both now and hands down the Honda just seems like a much better built car IMO. I know this is subjective, but I thought Dezoris's video(s) did a pretty good job of pointing these things out. There's a reason why Honda built a reputation for building reliable well thought out vehicles. Oh and then there's that whole "Honda just happens to be a world class engine builder that also makes cars" thing. The F22 engine is fantastic, I can't say that enough. It's the big reason I want to go back to an S2000 and it's not about the horsepower advantage, it's just a much better engine IMO. I can't imagine owning and driving an S2000 wouldn't bring a smile to your face.

And for those who are going to slam my opinion on the power thing, I went from my S2000 to a 2008 Shelby GT500 which had gobs more power and torque, but ultimately that small NA 2.2L F22 is just amazing and as others have mentioned on here it takes to FI eagerly if you want to go that route. If I get back into another one, I'll probably keep it NA but look into eaking out as much hp and revs as possible. I believe Spoon had a crate engine you could buy that was putting down around 300bhp, but it wasn't cheap either if I remember correctly.
NA's not worth it, man... not when superchargers are available and can take you to 400whp pretty easily and reliably.

It's fairly similar to the FRS/BRZ, actually, IMO, at least from what I've read here on the forum, in that turbo is the way to go if you really want to get the most out of it, but a supercharger will cause less headaches and less trouble dealing with heat....... only the S2000 will make significantly more power. haha.
Sideways&Smiling is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sideways&Smiling For This Useful Post:
Dezoris (03-24-2015)
Old 03-23-2015, 03:04 PM   #86
53Driver
T64-416Ax3=13,140shp
 
53Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2002 AP1 and 2015 F-150 EB (DD)
Location: NWA
Posts: 863
Thanks: 761
Thanked 366 Times in 217 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling View Post
NA's not worth it, man... not when superchargers are available and can take you to 400whp pretty easily and reliably.

It's fairly similar to the FRS/BRZ, actually, IMO, at least from what I've read here on the forum, in that turbo is the way to go if you really want to get the most out of it, but a supercharger will cause less headaches and less trouble dealing with heat....... only the S2000 will make significantly more power. haha.
True and not saying I wouldn't go the S/C route if I really wanted to make big power. With that being said, I'm also not saying I'm going to drop 8-10K on a Spoon or any other crate motor. I would just see what mods could be done to the stock engine to keep it NA and reliable while maybe getting a little bit more power out of it. Long story short, I'd keep it mostly stock because it's already great from the factory and I don't want to add weight or complexity with FI. When the time comes to rebuild or replace the motor, then I would consider either a) crate motor from reputable shop/builder or b) rebuild motor and add FI.
53Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2015, 12:23 AM   #87
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,848
Thanks: 516
Thanked 2,922 Times in 1,085 Posts
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling View Post
I finally went out and drove both the BRZ and FRS. I feel the opinions you stated in your video are pretty accurate and the same as my experience with both. The S2000 feels more edgey and special stock vs stock, but at the same time the FRS/BRZ seems like one of the best possible choices for a new car at the moment, IMO... The engine does not feel as special, and the car is a bit slower..... and has very different handling characteristics...... BUT it's fun, fairly nice inside, handles well, looks good... I found myself irrationally trying to figure out how I can get one ASAP despite already having and loving the S2000. lol

EDIT: Also want to add, I actually spun the S2000 in the rain this morning for the first time ever while driving to work after owning the car for 14-15 months now. I've always felt like people slightly over exaggerated the oversteer issue, but it actually caught me off guard this morning and was a bit scary! Fortunately, no problems other than sliding into some muddy dirt on the side of the road, but was definitely a butt-puckering experience lol
My first S2000 was when I was 24 I think, I cant remember how many times I looped that car not even trying. Its not as noob friendly as the 86 by any stretch however much more rewarding once you have the seat time to drive it fast. After having both at the same time, stock vs stock I'd find it VERY hard to justify owning the FRS if you had an S2000 already. Even when we did the track runs, sure the FRS was faster supercharged but we still got in the S2000 and just had more fun and no tow truck worries in the back of our minds like when we drove the FRS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Fun car only though this car will have to survive long ass road trips - I plan on driving across a good chunk of North America. I learnt years ago, that your DD should never be your track car so I dumped it and "grew up" lol. I have a DD (see signature) which ensures I get a paycheque. This car is strictly a 'grins' car.

I don't plan to mod either one right off the bat other than protective stuff. Drive the heck out of it, then once I know the car inside out, then start from the tires up. I know about the road noise issue and the rear tires - the S2K will eat tires like no tomorrow oddly enough.

My priorities are:
1- Fun
2- Reliable-ish (if it spends more time not being driven due to being broken, it does achive it's primary goal)
3- Road-trip worthy (I'd love a used Elise but that's insane road noise)

One of my favourite videos is by Nino Karotta on the Epic GT86 drive across Europe here: Epic Scion FR-S, Toyota GT86 test drive: racetrack, drift & cross-continental dash - HD - YouTube

That's what I want to do with the fun car.
The S2000 can be setup to be a very nice road trip machine, is it a good as the 86? No way but it depends on your size and tolerance for tight spaces. I pulled 1400 mile trip in the S2000 and was actually happy with memory foam pillow under me.

I owned an Exige, drove it from Cali back 2800 miles and that was by far the worst drive of my life. The Elise/Exige is a one trick pony, I dont regret selling it, the S2000 is a much better all around car in terms of reliability, parts, aftermarket and just down right ease to work on. The Exige/Elise has a cheap buy in but a WTF parts cost and nightmare labor situation. Shit like having to remove the entire front clam to get at the radiator, or if you even crack front or rear clamshell from a bump a normal car would cost you 400 and some paint. The Elise Exige is 2000+ some paint and a nightmare labor time. Or if your oil cooler lines have issues (which run from front of car to back through, rocker panels)

I'd rather have an Atom2/3 again, Honda motor, track toy, open cockpit actually more comfortable.

But even if I had to choose something again for up to 80k, GT4, C7, M3, Atom, Exige. Id still take the S2000.

Worry free, cheap buy in, track capable, fun in the summer, open top, normal insurance. Just a no BS edgy sports car with soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Love this thread as I'm a hair trigger away from buying either the BRZ or S2k but the problem is that up here in Canadia, they can be much harder to find unmolested and nowhere near as good prices as what you guys have access to. I found a 2004 S2k with 65,000km / 40,390 miles (for $26,500 CAD - very clean and bone stock.

Ho-ing and humming on that one.
See my above comment about S2000.

That is a lot of money but if you keep the miles low you wont lose money when you go to sell.
It's remarkable just how well the car has maintained its value. Like here A 2005 S2000 essentially has lost about 12k in value over 10 years, where the FRS has already lost about 9k in 2 years. It makes it a much safer purchase when you dont have to worry about depreciation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Driver View Post
Well, I think the decision ultimately comes down to personal wants/needs. If you want/need something "newer" with a warranty or if you want/need a back seat (though it's pretty much useless other than for small kids or stuff) or if you want/need a coupe then the answer should be obvious. Also, the road noise was more pronounced in the S2000 and rear tires need to be replaced more often (which exacerbates the road noise as the rear tires wear down). Do you haul a lot of stuff? Will this be your one and only vehicle? The only real reason I can afford to get rid of my FR-S and get an S2000 again is that I have another vehicle to rely on for transportation. So these are all things you should consider when making the purchase.

If it were me starting out with a fresh start and I had 25K to spend, I would spend 15K on as nice of a S2000 I could find and spend the other 10K on a nice used econo car that way I would have a vehicle for everday use and one to have fun with.
You basically just said it best, the S2000 is really a second car.
As a primary like many sports/sporty cars it loses it appeal fast when you make it your daily grinder.
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dezoris For This Useful Post:
53Driver (03-24-2015), Frost (03-24-2015)
Old 03-24-2015, 12:52 AM   #88
Sideways&Smiling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: AP2 S2000, S14 240sx
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 967
Thanks: 446
Thanked 484 Times in 288 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
I owned an Exige, drove it from Cali back 2800 miles and that was by far the worst drive of my life. The Elise/Exige is a one trick pony, I dont regret selling it, the S2000 is a much better all around car in terms of reliability, parts, aftermarket and just down right ease to work on. The Exige/Elise has a cheap buy in but a WTF parts cost and nightmare labor situation. Shit like having to remove the entire front clam to get at the radiator, or if you even crack front or rear clamshell from a bump a normal car would cost you 400 and some paint. The Elise Exige is 2000+ some paint and a nightmare labor time. Or if your oil cooler lines have issues (which run from front of car to back through, rocker panels)

I'd rather have an Atom2/3 again, Honda motor, track toy, open cockpit actually more comfortable.

But even if I had to choose something again for up to 80k, GT4, C7, M3, Atom, Exige. Id still take the S2000.

Worry free, cheap buy in, track capable, fun in the summer, open top, normal insurance. Just a no BS edgy sports car with soul.
You've gotta find a well-sorted FD RX7 to make a vid for, man! People love your review/commentary style, and the FD is a highly praised/sought after/respected car. Would be really interesting to see it thrown in the mix (rotary issues aside..... just the overall driving experience).
Sideways&Smiling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2015, 12:56 AM   #89
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,848
Thanks: 516
Thanked 2,922 Times in 1,085 Posts
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling View Post
You've gotta find a well-sorted FD RX7 to make a vid for, man! People love your review/commentary style, and the FD is a highly praised/sought after/respected car. Would be really interesting to see it thrown in the mix (rotary issues aside..... just the overall driving experience).
I am going to work on trying to connect with owners this summer, midwest is hard for that. I'd love to get my hands on one. The next few reviews with normal cars I am trying to get the filming time cut down before I hit up owners as most of them won't spend two days with you.

Thanks BTW!
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 08:39 PM   #90
FRiSson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: FR-S MT
Location: New England
Posts: 1,081
Thanks: 118
Thanked 482 Times in 241 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Should of spent a lot more time learning how to shoot video, make transitions, dealing with exposure, backlighting etc. These are just amateur errors.
FRiSson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 09:46 PM   #91
JS + BRZ
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: 2010 MS3
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,820
Thanks: 1,180
Thanked 1,160 Times in 597 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
*Have
JS + BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JS + BRZ For This Useful Post:
civicdrivr (06-27-2015), strat61caster (06-27-2015)
Old 06-27-2015, 01:26 AM   #92
jtsimaras
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: Subaru BRZ, Mazda CX5,
Location: CALGARY
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Only thing I don't miss about my sold S2 is the convertible roof and no rear seat storage besides that it was such a great car. Crazy how a 16 year old design still can hold its own and put out 120hp/Liter
jtsimaras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 03:18 AM   #93
DAEMANO
Time Traveller
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 Scion FRS - Raven
Location: So Cal - Orange County
Posts: 3,663
Thanks: 9,198
Thanked 3,367 Times in 1,659 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsimaras View Post
Only thing I don't miss about my sold S2 is the convertible roof and no rear seat storage besides that it was such a great car. Crazy how a 16 year old design still can hold its own and put out 120hp/Liter
120hp/liter because emissions and mileage requirements back then were much less stringent than now. The same motor couldn't be produced today. Too dirty.
__________________
DAEMANO's RAVEN FR-S
Phantom Electric Supercharged & Open Flash Tuned
Showa Evolution Spring/Shocks | WedsSport SA-10R | e85
DAEMANO is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DAEMANO For This Useful Post:
Rampage (06-28-2015)
Old 06-27-2015, 09:43 PM   #94
jtsimaras
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: Subaru BRZ, Mazda CX5,
Location: CALGARY
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAEMANO View Post
120hp/liter because emissions and mileage requirements back then were much less stringent than now. The same motor couldn't be produced today. Too dirty.
Don't rain on the parade---just kidding...I think Honda could do it again. DIT has helped a bunch with MPG and HP.
jtsimaras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 10:12 PM   #95
krayzie
Elite Transmissionist
 
krayzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: BRZ STI Performance
Location: Filth City
Posts: 4,892
Thanks: 2,356
Thanked 3,089 Times in 1,995 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsimaras View Post
Don't rain on the parade---just kidding...I think Honda could do it again. DIT has helped a bunch with MPG and HP.
Don't think so as more and more manufacturers are going turbo to overcome the newer standards, including Honda. The Honda I knew retired already along with Uehara.
krayzie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to krayzie For This Useful Post:
civicdrivr (06-28-2015), CSG Mike (07-14-2015), DAEMANO (06-28-2015)
Old 06-27-2015, 11:42 PM   #96
SamGam
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Drives: '13 BRZ SWP 6MT
Location: Evanston
Posts: 36
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Great vid! And yes I agree an extra 40hp is quite a lot considering the frs is only 200, that's a solid 20% increase in power!
SamGam is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SamGam For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (06-28-2015)
Old 06-28-2015, 02:43 PM   #97
abraxis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: many
Location: here
Posts: 469
Thanks: 190
Thanked 264 Times in 145 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsimaras View Post
I think Honda could do it again. DIT has helped a bunch with MPG and HP.
So where is it? Oh, I think I found it dead and buried under their turbos and hybrids.
abraxis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to abraxis For This Useful Post:
Lonewolf (06-28-2015), WolfpackS2k (07-14-2015)
Old 06-28-2015, 06:09 PM   #98
jtsimaras
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: Subaru BRZ, Mazda CX5,
Location: CALGARY
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxis View Post
So where is it? Oh, I think I found it dead and buried under their turbos and hybrids.
jtsimaras is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vortech Finale Review Video | Track Testing | Part 4 of 4 Dezoris Forced Induction 75 04-12-2014 12:45 PM
CS FR-S vs SSM s/c S2000 Autocross video. sohcanddohc Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 0 10-05-2013 10:26 AM
The Sad Truth | Vortech Autocross Review Video Part 3 Dezoris Forced Induction 19 07-24-2013 04:18 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.