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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 09-25-2014, 08:24 PM   #71
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Awesome review.
I loved it.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:23 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Skurge View Post
i've owned a 2001 S2000 for about 5 years now, for about 4 of those years it was pretty much a DD most of the year, bought an FRS just over a year ago and now am driving the 86 99% of the time.

background
S2000 is stock save for a cold air and a test pipe, wheels and tires
FRS is bone stock

that being said...


as far as the throttle goes, i cannot stand the 86's. that is one of, if not my biggest complaint with the car, there is a HUGE delay in the throttle. so much so that i have to make sure i make it a point to put my foot back down what seems like very very early to get the same type of shift that just comes natural in the honda.

engine power, to me, the 86 seems like it pulls a lot harder in the low range than the honda, but once you hit the almighty vtec, the honda feels much much better where the 86 falls flat. personally, i'm usually shifting at 4K as it just feels better lol

steering yes, the 86 wins in my book there, though i like how much resistance there is on the honda, the 86 has a better feel to it

trans/etc: the clutch on the 86 is way to soft for me, its hard to feel the engagement point. as for the shifting itself, the honda wins there also, if you haven't drive one. you wont find a better trans in a car under 60K

though i'm a fan of the 86's interior, why did they even give it an analog speedo? the honda is just more driver oriented IMO. I will say i like the seats better in the FRS

i'm not sure what else to say, I cant remember all the other things i wanted to add, feel free to ask any questions.

one last thing, love the videos man, have watched a few

To fix the clutch from being too soft and hard to feel the engagement, there is a quick/simple/easy mod for it. There's a spring attached to the pedal that is doing exactly what you mentioned to make it easier to press in and out. I pulled the spring out and it feels like a normal car again, as did everyone else that did it. Here's the thread on how to do it. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35621
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:25 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Cope52 View Post
Yeah when I'm running on the highway at 80 with over 4 grand on the clock, you hit the throttle and nothing. Seems like I'm punching thru inches of springy throttle travel. What can be done about this? The car is otherwise superb as a highway criuser.
My Innovate supercharger fixed this. More torque down low is a good/fun fix.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:17 PM   #74
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S2000 vs FR-S BRZ Review | Video Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurge View Post
though i'm a fan of the 86's interior, why did they even give it an analog speedo?

IMO it's because the car they benchmarked has the exact same setup...Porsche Cayman. I don't mind the analog speedo although I very rarely look at it. In my view it only adds to what is already a very driver focused cockpit.


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Old 09-28-2014, 08:21 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockysnail View Post
To fix the clutch from being too soft and hard to feel the engagement, there is a quick/simple/easy mod for it. There's a spring attached to the pedal that is doing exactly what you mentioned to make it easier to press in and out. I pulled the spring out and it feels like a normal car again, as did everyone else that did it. Here's the thread on how to do it. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35621


now this i may have to do, thanks!



though i have since gotten rid of my S2K, for 2 first gen RX-7's
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Old 10-15-2014, 12:15 AM   #76
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A late post, but I wanted to voice my opinion on your perspective. Near the end of the video you argue the idea of needing to shift frequently in a stock FR-S, most notibly to find power, took away from your "focus of driving". Please remember that this car was designed to teach you to become a better driver. . These fundamentals of lower power and use of the gearbox (which I find enjoying to use more often) are part of what make this car so great. The whole experience of needing to work for the power and keep it consistent as the drive evolves is very engaging, a true drivers car.
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Old 03-23-2015, 11:49 AM   #77
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I finally got around to watching these videos this weekend. Pretty good stuff and I agree with most of your conclusions. The biggest issue I have with the S2000 is that there was never a coupe version offered. I just hate ragtops. With that being said, the motor and chassis in the S are fantastic. So much so, I'm on the hunt to pick up one again.
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:57 PM   #78
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I finally got around to watching these videos this weekend. Pretty good stuff and I agree with most of your conclusions. The biggest issue I have with the S2000 is that there was never a coupe version offered. I just hate ragtops. With that being said, the motor and chassis in the S are fantastic. So much so, I'm on the hunt to pick up one again.
For most people if you can get over the rag top maybe even do a hard top the S2000 bought for around 18-19k just offers so much more without even having to touch anything on the car.
But once you can grab a low mileage FRS for <15k. It becomes one of the best tuner car options, definetly something I'd reconsider later on.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:12 PM   #79
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For most people if you can get over the rag top maybe even do a hard top the S2000 bought for around 18-19k just offers so much more without even having to touch anything on the car.
But once you can grab a low mileage FRS for <15k. It becomes one of the best tuner car options, definetly something I'd reconsider later on.
And to think, I got my "used" 2004 S2000 with OEM hardtop back in 2004 for 23K OTD and that car only had 3000 miles on the odometer when I got it. Picked it up from a dealership in AZ off of Ebay, the dealership had special ordered the car for an older couple and they drove it as a weekend car for about 6 months and then decided it wasn't for them. They even took my 2003 Nissan 350Z in trade, delivered the car to NC and picked up the Z. Man I was a fool for trading that car in a couple years later.

I agree with you though, sub 15K and the FR-S/BRZ would make a great "tuner" car, but when you pay 25-28K and have a warranty to worry about it doesn't make much sense unless you don't care about warranty and have the money to burn when things break.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:21 PM   #80
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Love this thread as I'm a hair trigger away from buying either the BRZ or S2k but the problem is that up here in Canadia, they can be much harder to find unmolested and nowhere near as good prices as what you guys have access to. I found a 2004 S2k with 65,000km / 40,390 miles (for $26,500 CAD - very clean and bone stock.

Ho-ing and humming on that one.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:36 PM   #81
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Love this thread as I'm a hair trigger away from buying either the BRZ or S2k but the problem is that up here in Canadia, they can be much harder to find unmolested and nowhere near as good prices as what you guys have access to. I found a 2004 S2k with 65,000km / 40,390 miles (for $26,500 CAD - very clean and bone stock.

Ho-ing and humming on that one.
Well, I think the decision ultimately comes down to personal wants/needs. If you want/need something "newer" with a warranty or if you want/need a back seat (though it's pretty much useless other than for small kids or stuff) or if you want/need a coupe then the answer should be obvious. Also, the road noise was more pronounced in the S2000 and rear tires need to be replaced more often (which exacerbates the road noise as the rear tires wear down). Do you haul a lot of stuff? Will this be your one and only vehicle? The only real reason I can afford to get rid of my FR-S and get an S2000 again is that I have another vehicle to rely on for transportation. So these are all things you should consider when making the purchase.

If it were me starting out with a fresh start and I had 25K to spend, I would spend 15K on as nice of a S2000 I could find and spend the other 10K on a nice used econo car that way I would have a vehicle for everday use and one to have fun with.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:59 PM   #82
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Well, I think the decision ultimately comes down to personal wants/needs. If you want/need something "newer" with a warranty or if you want/need a back seat (though it's pretty much useless other than for small kids or stuff) or if you want/need a coupe then the answer should be obvious. Also, the road noise was more pronounced in the S2000 and rear tires need to be replaced more often (which exacerbates the road noise as the rear tires wear down). Do you haul a lot of stuff? Will this be your one and only vehicle? The only real reason I can afford to get rid of my FR-S and get an S2000 again is that I have another vehicle to rely on for transportation. So these are all things you should consider when making the purchase.

If it were me starting out with a fresh start and I had 25K to spend, I would spend 15K on as nice of a S2000 I could find and spend the other 10K on a nice used econo car that way I would have a vehicle for everday use and one to have fun with.
Fun car only though this car will have to survive long ass road trips - I plan on driving across a good chunk of North America. I learnt years ago, that your DD should never be your track car so I dumped it and "grew up" lol. I have a DD (see signature) which ensures I get a paycheque. This car is strictly a 'grins' car.

I don't plan to mod either one right off the bat other than protective stuff. Drive the heck out of it, then once I know the car inside out, then start from the tires up. I know about the road noise issue and the rear tires - the S2K will eat tires like no tomorrow oddly enough.

My priorities are:
1- Fun
2- Reliable-ish (if it spends more time not being driven due to being broken, it does achive it's primary goal)
3- Road-trip worthy (I'd love a used Elise but that's insane road noise)

One of my favourite videos is by Nino Karotta on the Epic GT86 drive across Europe here:

That's what I want to do with the fun car.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
For most people if you can get over the rag top maybe even do a hard top the S2000 bought for around 18-19k just offers so much more without even having to touch anything on the car.
But once you can grab a low mileage FRS for <15k. It becomes one of the best tuner car options, definetly something I'd reconsider later on.
I finally went out and drove both the BRZ and FRS. I feel the opinions you stated in your video are pretty accurate and the same as my experience with both. The S2000 feels more edgey and special stock vs stock, but at the same time the FRS/BRZ seems like one of the best possible choices for a new car at the moment, IMO... The engine does not feel as special, and the car is a bit slower..... and has very different handling characteristics...... BUT it's fun, fairly nice inside, handles well, looks good... I found myself irrationally trying to figure out how I can get one ASAP despite already having and loving the S2000. lol

EDIT: Also want to add, I actually spun the S2000 in the rain this morning for the first time ever while driving to work after owning the car for 14-15 months now. I've always felt like people slightly over exaggerated the oversteer issue, but it actually caught me off guard this morning and was a bit scary! Fortunately, no problems other than sliding into some muddy dirt on the side of the road, but was definitely a butt-puckering experience lol
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:38 PM   #84
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Well, if you're asking me @Frost, I'd go with as nice of an AP S2000 that you can find/afford. I've owned both now and hands down the Honda just seems like a much better built car IMO. I know this is subjective, but I thought Dezoris's video(s) did a pretty good job of pointing these things out. There's a reason why Honda built a reputation for building reliable well thought out vehicles. Oh and then there's that whole "Honda just happens to be a world class engine builder that also makes cars" thing. The F22 engine is fantastic, I can't say that enough. It's the big reason I want to go back to an S2000 and it's not about the horsepower advantage, it's just a much better engine IMO. I can't imagine owning and driving an S2000 wouldn't bring a smile to your face.

And for those who are going to slam my opinion on the power thing, I went from my S2000 to a 2008 Shelby GT500 which had gobs more power and torque, but ultimately that small NA 2.2L F22 is just amazing and as others have mentioned on here it takes to FI eagerly if you want to go that route. If I get back into another one, I'll probably keep it NA but look into eaking out as much hp and revs as possible. I believe Spoon had a crate engine you could buy that was putting down around 300bhp, but it wasn't cheap either if I remember correctly.
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