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Old 07-26-2019, 06:32 PM   #561
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I'm going to put a deposit down on one. Can't decide on the color though. I'm leaning towards "torch red."



but also love white...


Flip a coin. They're both great. I do have to say that silver metallics by GM always seem to look awesome too.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:58 PM   #562
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Please read the earlier posts before you respond. The C7 Corvette program at its peak did 35,000 units per year. In total, it was <160,000 units for its 6-year run and the manual take rate program wide was 15% (source: The Corvette Program Lead Engineer).

For reference, BMW does around 150,000 units for the 3/4 series in a single year and they are dropping the stick because it's not profitable. Oh and BMW is using an off-the-shelf Getrag or ZF manual that is bolted to tonnes of other cars, not some one-off unique design.

There is not enough volume for a one-off manual to be profitable in the C8 program.

https://www.corvetteblogger.com/201...gineer-no-manual-for-c8-its-a-dying-business/

Chevy agrees with you that there's no profit in the manual anymore.


The Chief engineer for the C8, Tadge Juechter, told Corvette Blogger that there won't ever be a manual transmission for the C8. Only 15% of people bought them in the C7 (Z06) and that number goes down every year so there was no business case to offer one this time around. He said the Z06 used to be manual only but as soon as they offered the automatic everyone bought the auto. Plus apparently they couldn't find any one to build them a manual for the C8 at that low of a volume and be cost effective:


“It’s a dying business,” he said. “The people who make a living building manual transmissions, they see that it’s not a bright future for them. It’s low volume, very expensive. The reason is it’s a low-volume industry. That industry is dying – building manual transmissions.”

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/bm...-a-manual-box/


It looks like BMW will still offer the manual in the M3/M4 according to car scoops:


"BMW M chief executive Markus Flasch has confirmed that the next-generation M3 and M4 will be available with a manual transmission...Manual is very important. The manual stick shift is not a performance-bringer, because an automatic transmission is just faster, you can ask any race driver,” he said. “But it gives the vehicle character and I kind of compare it to people who love mechanical watches; it isn’t more precise and it doesn’t have any advantage at all but it’s a character feature. So is a stick shift.”

The Supra could be a great alternative if Toyota can find a way to quickly shoehorn one of the BMW manuals in there. Plus the Supra is the same size as our cars in length but obviously a lot wider which I think is a good thing. The C8 is a much bigger car by at least 10 inches in length which I'm not a fan of. And the C8 is going to be about 200 pounds heavier as GM is only quoting dry weight of around 3366. All things to consider.
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Last edited by zigzagz94; 07-26-2019 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:09 AM   #563
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Originally Posted by zigzagz94 View Post
Chevy agrees with you that there's no profit in the manual anymore.

The Chief engineer for the C8, Tadge Juechter, told Corvette Blogger that there won't ever be a manual transmission for the C8. Only 15% of people bought them in the C7 (Z06) and that number goes down every year so there was no business case to offer one this time around. He said the Z06 used to be manual only but as soon as they offered the automatic everyone bought the auto. Plus apparently they couldn't find any one to build them a manual for the C8 at that low of a volume and be cost effective:

ďItís a dying business,Ē he said. ďThe people who make a living building manual transmissions, they see that itís not a bright future for them. Itís low volume, very expensive. The reason is itís a low-volume industry. That industry is dying Ė building manual transmissions.Ē
The problem is that there is nowhere to go for a manual car, so there is little consequence to dropping the manual. If they lost 15% of sales because those buyers took their money somewhere else then maybe they would find a way to make it work.

Part of the problem is that the power on cars is so high these days that a manual is more than most can handle. People rely on the auto like they rely on the nannies. Less people know how to drive manuals. With electrification around the corner, even standard autos and DCTs are going bye bye.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:47 AM   #564
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[*]The base Corvette has 4 coolant radiators - 2 in the front and 1 behind each door.
If I'm reading the Jalopnik link correctly, it sounds like it's like a Porsche Cayman, only 2 radiators at the front corners. The Z51 adds a single extra radiator to the right side. In the picture you can see the radiator is slightly tilted backwards but facing the front of the car head on, so it's gotta be pretty small.

I'm curious to see more info on the aerodynamics. They claim most of the air is being exhausted through the tiny slot right above the diffuser, which is pretty weird. The engine bay looks pretty tight but the side scoops are enormous, which gives me the sense they did that to make it look dramatic, since not a lot of air can make it through the engine bay and under the rear luggage compartment then finally through the tiny mesh over the diffuser...
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:20 AM   #565
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I imagine that in 2020 the car would have electronic torque vectoring/stability control (via brakes) of some sort standard, so no LSD or no e-diff is not as big of a deal as it used to be when not having that option meant open diff with no way to put any power down.

Using brakes for torque vectoring is a terrible substitute for a real LSD. Using the brakes is literally free because the car will already have 4 channel ABS. So obviously the manufacturers are going to try to brainwash people into believing itís just as good.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:25 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
And?
Higher ATPs are generally synonymous with higher margins, which means more room in the program to do exotic things...like a mid-engined layout.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:34 PM   #567
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Higher ATPs are generally synonymous with higher margins, which means more room in the program to do exotic things...like a mid-engined layout.
That can be offset by volume. Nothing particularly special about building a mid-engine car.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:34 AM   #568
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Again, the Corvette just proved everyone wrong who said going mid engine was going to balloon the MSRP. It didnít.
Nobody was wrong. Mid engine super cars are/were expensive. It is just that GM did outstanding engineering and changed the game.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:13 AM   #569
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Nobody was wrong. Mid engine super cars are/were expensive. It is just that GM did outstanding engineering and changed the game.
No. Some of us were clearly saying there was no reason the mid-engine Corvette needed to be more expensive. Our chief evidence was the existence of cheap mid engine cars like the Fiero and MR2. That rational was dismissed as asinine, where we were ridiculed for suggesting such silliness because there was no way the car was coming in under $100k, that the mid engine Corvette was going to be a special model sold alongside a FR C8 that was regularly priced, or even that this MR setup would be a halo car, and not a Corvette, similar in cost and performance to the Ford GT because a MR setup necessitated a huge cost.

You can’t suggest now that our rational was nonexistent then, that no rationale or examples could justify what happened, when what happened was exactly what was predicted by many of us. If that isn’t the definition of some people being wrong and others being right then I don’t know what is.

This is where the debate began at post 108:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=110603&page=8
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:23 PM   #570
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
No. Some of us were clearly saying there was no reason the mid-engine Corvette needed to be more expensive. Our chief evidence was the existence of cheap mid engine cars like the Fiero and MR2. That rational was dismissed as asinine, where we were ridiculed for suggesting such silliness because there was no way the car was coming in under $100k, that the mid engine Corvette was going to be a special model sold alongside a FR C8 that was regularly priced, or even that this MR setup would be a halo car, and not a Corvette, similar in cost and performance to the Ford GT because a MR setup necessitated a huge cost.

You canít suggest now that our rational was nonexistent then, that no rationale or examples could justify what happened, when what happened was exactly what was predicted by many of us. If that isnít the definition of some people being wrong and others being right then I donít know what is.

This is where the debate began at post 108:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=110603&page=8
I haven't seen that discussion before. But MR2 and Fiero were not supercars and never intended to be; C8 is a supercar. Based on that fact, I was comparing the $60K price of C8 with Ferrari and Lamborghini. So, you were right at the time.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:01 PM   #571
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I will gladly admit that I was wrong about the price of the mid-engine Corvette. I was sure it would be into the low six digits. I am glad I was wrong. I also think that everyone is shocked that GM brought on out a sportscar like this that starts at just under $60K. Most of the time new cars do come out costing much more than you think they will or where the manufacturer is supposedly targeting. It is wonderful when something like the base Corvette Stingray comes out and puts this type of performance within reach of the common, if financially established, man (or woman). I have no problem eating a delicious portion of crow in this case. Good for you Chevy!
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:12 AM   #572
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Chevy released a teaser video that includes the convertible version at 0:24.

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Old 07-29-2019, 10:44 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
If I'm reading the Jalopnik link correctly, it sounds like it's like a Porsche Cayman, only 2 radiators at the front corners. The Z51 adds a single extra radiator to the right side. In the picture you can see the radiator is slightly tilted backwards but facing the front of the car head on, so it's gotta be pretty small.

I'm curious to see more info on the aerodynamics. They claim most of the air is being exhausted through the tiny slot right above the diffuser, which is pretty weird. The engine bay looks pretty tight but the side scoops are enormous, which gives me the sense they did that to make it look dramatic, since not a lot of air can make it through the engine bay and under the rear luggage compartment then finally through the tiny mesh over the diffuser...
Yeah now I'm a little confused. I just read the Jalop article and it (like you say above) differs from the other technical article I read. Weird shit.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:59 AM   #574
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Part of the problem is that the power on cars is so high these days that a manual is more than most can handle. People rely on the auto like they rely on the nannies.
I think the problem is fuel economy more than power. MT have been handling massive power for years, but when you have to start adding 8 to 10 gears to a transmission to meet/improve fuel economy people lose interest.

I know I have zero interest in driving an MT with more than 4 or maybe 5 gears in it. When my car has as many gears as a semi, give me a DCT or AT.
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