Header info for a newbie

[Target70]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Lol finally....

Btw, there will be a delay since you are placing it further back. Just because some moron done it for 5K miles doesn't mean he knows what he is doing.

I don't think there would be a delay. If the O2 sensor before the cat does all the A/F calculations, then you leave it where it is, and you don't have any delays. If this is correct: "The second O2 sensor is literally only there to ensure your cat is working", then all you have to do is weld in the bung behind the secondary cat, and move that second O2 sensor from it's factory, "after cat/second" location, to the new third location, with the help of the o2 extension cable, then plug up factory "after cat/second" bung.

I have done a little research and even with the antifouler or mini-cat method, some people still have problems with CELs. This seems like a good way to run a catless header and avoid a CEL with no tune, or if you need to flash back to factory tune. The only problem I see is that I have heard that the sensor has to be at an angle, something about condensation causing premature sensor failure if it is not angled properly, and secondly is if the second cat doesn't get hot enough. I don't think we will have that problem, but it's nothing some header wrap wouldn't fix.. IMO.

I'll probably catch crap about cheating the dealer, but I have been looking for a way to run the OFH on factory tune without popping a CEL, just in case I need to take it in for warranty work.

I just thought about it, but the new empty second bung could probably be used for the Open Flash Wideband kit

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Target70

I don't think there would be a delay. If the O2 sensor before the cat does all the A/F calculations, then you leave it where it is, and you don't have any delays. If this is correct: "The second O2 sensor is literally only there to ensure your cat is working", then all you have to do is weld in the bung behind the secondary cat, and move that second O2 sensor from it's factory, "after cat/second" location, to the new third location, with the help of the o2 extension cable, then plug up factory "after cat/second" bung.

I have done a little research and even with the antifouler or mini-cat method, some people still have problems with CELs. This seems like a good way to run a catless header and avoid a CEL with no tune, or if you need to flash back to factory tune. The only problem I see is that I have heard that the sensor has to be at an angle, something about condensation causing premature sensor failure if it is not angled properly, and secondly is if cat doesn't get hot enough. I don't think we will have that problem, but it's nothing some header wrap wouldn't fix.. IMO.

You must have forgotten he is extending both o2 sensors.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by s2d4

You must have forgotten he is extending both o2 sensors.

Ok yeah, that part I don't get. Why move the first sensor from a pre(before the)cat location, 6'' further down stream to a new pre cat location.(no cat now that you have catless headers?) I think just moving the second o2 would work fine.

[B-R-Z]

Originally Posted by s2d4

You must have forgotten he is extending both o2 sensors.

Actually only extending one, which is the aftercat sensor. The before cat can reach.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Target70

Ok yeah, that part I don't get. Why move the first sensor from a pre(before the)cat location, 6'' further down stream to a new pre cat location, (which is before the cat now) after installing catless headers? I think just moving the second o2 would work fine.

No idea, fitting to the thread title more than anything.
pretty sure it'll be longer than 6" to extend it to the front pipe.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

Actually only extending one, which is the aftercat sensor. The before cat can reach.

You must've change your ideas since your initial post with both options being moving both o2 sensors.

All good, it could definitely work now.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

1. Use the oem secondary cat as the primary, relocating the o2 sensors before and after it.
2. Have the oem secondary cat replaced with a 'primary' cat at an exhaust shop, and have the o2 sensors relocated before and after it.

This was what you wanted to do before.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

I told you what I'm trying to avoid in my previous post. Another member moved his sensors around the secondary and has no cel for 5000+ miles. My only concern is the ecu messing with a/f ratio

And the first reference to the moronic person moving both o2.

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

Another member has done this with success for 5k+ miles

And the second reference just then, so yeah, everything indicated you were going to do the same.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by s2d4

You must've change your ideas since your initial post with both options being moving both o2 sensors.

All good, it could definitely work now.

I'll get it eventually, Yeah, I was thinking he was saying to install 1 new bung, after the second cat, then move the second o2 sensor to the new bung, and move the first o2 sensor to where the second sensor used to be. Which if I use the OFH as an example, is only about 6'' from the left bank to bung after the collector.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Target70

I'll get it eventually, Yeah, I was thinking he was saying to install 1 new bung, after the second cat, then move the second o2 sensor to the new bung, and move the first o2 sensor to where the second sensor used to be. Which if I use the OFH as an example, is only about 6'' from the left bank to bung after the collector.

Fair enough. Thought there is 2" from the header to the OP. Then the OP itself is probably 6"? so I was thinking closer to 10". Just thought it would be longer that is all.
EDIT: I see what you are saying now, yeah could work.

[B-R-Z]

That's correct @Target70.

Both sensors are being moved but only 1 requires the extension cable.

Originally Posted by s2d4

You must've change your ideas since your initial post with both options being moving both o2 sensors.

All good, it could definitely work now.

It doesn't matter to me how it's done as long as it works. If it'll work better keeping the before-cat sensor where it is now that works with me. But I know the way the moron (© s2d4) did it works so I may go that route. I guess the first sensor placement doesn't affect the after-cat sensor function.

@s2d4 what's with your negativity man, it's a forum where this kind of discussion is supposed to take place. Relax man

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

That's correct @Target70.

Both sensors are being moved but only 1 requires the extension cable.


It doesn't matter to me how it's done as long as it works. If it'll work better keeping the before-cat sensor where it is now that works with me. But I know the way the moron (© s2d4) did it works so I may go that route. I guess the first sensor placement doesn't affect the after-cat sensor function.

@s2d4 what's with your negativity man, it's a forum where this kind of discussion is supposed to take place. Relax man

Yeah, negativity... And you quoted a positive part... Credit where it is due I suppose.

However, I stand behind the moronic statement of moving both o2 sensors to the FP.

[B-R-Z]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Yeah, negativity... And you quoted a positive part... Credit where it is due I suppose.

However, I stand behind the moronic statement of moving both o2 sensors to the FP.

Both do not go to front pipe if I follow the morons idea. He plugs the before cat hole in the header, puts the before cat sensor in the after cat bung in header, and after cat sensor goes in fp

[steve99]

If you don't want CEL use one of these or equlivant, you might have to try the different orifaces to find which stops the CEL best

http://www.phasteksport.com/2013-Sci...-o2-020001.htm


Moving the position of the O2 sensors is likely to cause additional problems especially if you move the front o2 sensor


You can disable the CEL code on the stock tune just open the stock tune in RomRaider set the P0420 CEL to disable save reflash stock tune.

It kind of pointless though as

1. Its no longer byte for byte stock
2. The Dealer will notice your aftermarket headers WAY before they will notice the Hex code changes in a tune

If you have aftermarket headers fitted your chances of engine warantee claims are reduced, same as if you have messed with position of O2 sensors.

Headers change gass flows
Re-position O2 sensor -reads mixtures differently.
They can argue you damaged O2 sensors causing problems
They can argue you introduced exhaust leaks or leaks at o2 sensors that caused problems
Any melting or heat deterioration of plastic parts belts ect can be blamed on lack of heat shielding of aftermarket headers.
your aftermarket headers did not have expansion joints causing stress on block ect list goes on.

Aftermarket headers stand out like dogs balls

Most dealers will never find a tune unless they have other evidence or reason to look. The ROM will show the same CALID or ROM ID for tuned or stock ROM in Techstream Dealer software. They would have to pull your ROM and compare it with HEX comparator or other software to be sure and that ain't going to happen unless they are after you for some reason