Question about CA VC 22349(b)

[Shynee]

Hey all,

I was recently cited for going 69 in a 50 on State Route 17 going SB towards Santa Cruz. This is in the south bay.

I am wondering if any of you have ever been cited for (b) instead of (a). Here's why:

I'm considering fighting the ticket. The officer cited me for VC 22349 (b) which states:

(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person may
drive a vehicle upon a two-lane, undivided highway at a speed greater
than 55 miles per hour unless that highway, or portion thereof, has
been posted for a higher speed by the Department of Transportation or
appropriate local agency upon the basis of an engineering and
traffic survey. For purposes of this subdivision, the following
apply:
(1) A two-lane, undivided highway is a highway with not more than
one through lane of travel in each direction.
(2) Passing lanes may not be considered when determining the
number of through lanes.
(c) It is the intent of the Legislature that there be reasonable
signing on affected two-lane, undivided highways described in
subdivision (b) in continuing the 55 miles-per-hour speed limit,
including placing signs at county boundaries to the extent possible,
and at other appropriate locations.

The significant part of this text is "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person may drive a vehicle upon a two-lane, undivided highway at a speed greater than 55 miles per hour."

The thing is, Highway 17 (the road I was on) is a four-lane, divided highway. Two lanes in each direction with a cement barrier in the center. Does this mean that 22349 (b) does not apply and I should fight the ticket for that reason?

I should add that people frequently travel 65mph+ on this highway and I was singled out by the cop as it was a low traffic time of day and there were no cars around me. But I also know that is not relevant in court.

Just trying to decide what I should do. Don't want the point on my record, not really about the fee.

[Watch Me Run]

Where did you find the space to go 69 lol?

[Shynee]

Originally Posted by Watch Me Run

Where did you find the space to go 69 lol?

It was a long uphill straight away that leads into a slight curve. A lot of people travel around that speed at many parts of this highway. I was going 69 for maybe a second. That was my maximum speed. That is the highest speed I hit and also when I started slowing down.

As I told the officer, I thought I was still in a 65, which is why my speed was exceeding 5-10mph of that limit, but he did not appear to care.

[whiteout13FRS]

Even if you were only going 65 on a 55 if it's on the ticket that you went over the suggested speed limit you can still be fined for it going to court. The 5-10 over is because people's odometers could be off some cops are leinant when it comes to that. The courts not so much. If you really want to fight it talk to a lawyer.

[Shynee]

Originally Posted by whiteout13FRS

Even if you were only going 65 on a 55 if it's on the ticket that you went over the suggested speed limit you can still be fined for it going to court. The 5-10 over is because people's odometers could be off some cops are leinant when it comes to that. The courts not so much. If you really want to fight it talk to a lawyer.

Just to be clear, I do not want to fight the ticket based on my speed.

If the officer had cited me for going over 65mph on any highway (22349A) or driving above the speed limit at an unsafe speed (22350) I would just plead no contest and pay the reduced fine.

However, because his cite is potentially for the incorrect code (22349B - over 55 on a two lane, undivided highway), in a court of law where I am under oath I would have no choice but to plead not guilty to this specific charge because I did not violate it, as I was not traveling on a two lane, undivided highway.

What I am looking for is some kind of confirmation that information is correct, hopefully based on experience. That they cannot then immediately cite me for the correct code or potentially amend the initial citation. My hope is that someone on the forum will have seen/heard a similar situation happen to another person or potentially had gone through something like this. Either way I am almost definitely going to fight it and see what happens.

What is even more interesting to me is the fact that even though the road I was traveling on was a four lane highway with a cement barrier in the center, my side of the road was a two lane, undivided direction. (with both lanes going in the same direction) However, what I am determining based on research and also what I am being told is that legally: a two lane, undivided highway is one with two lanes, one traveling in each direction, with no barrier whatsoever. The road I was traveling on does not apply. My opinion is that the officer cited me for 22349B thinking that it did.

[Watch Me Run]

I watched a video last night who fights all tickets just by asking for the evidence against him. Maybe find out what evidence they have that you violated whatever particular code they cited you against?

[finch1750]

Consult a lawyer. Your county bar association will do consults for relatively cheap to see if you have a case

[Pwolf]

Trying to fight the semantics of the ticket probably isn't going to get you anywhere. Judge is going to look at this case, see that you were speeding anyway, and just order the records be changed to reflect the correct VC (at best).

If you told the officer you thought the speed limit was 65, you've already just admitted to driving over the limit so trying the "where's the evidence?" line will probably not work well against you if they decided to pull audio/video recordings.

Just take the ticket and do the driving school to get rid of the point.

[PMok]

I agree with @Pwolf -- judge will see the facts and conclude you were still speeding. They will cut the ticketing officer some slack and just amend the charge to the proper code, and you will be found guilty. Don't waste your time and the judge's time fighting it, just pay and move on.

[Watch Me Run]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsNILS3Ydq4"]How To Handle a Traffic Ticket - YouTube[/ame]

[Shynee]

Originally Posted by PMok

I agree with @Pwolf -- judge will see the facts and conclude you were still speeding. They will cut the ticketing officer some slack and just amend the charge to the proper code, and you will be found guilty. Don't waste your time and the judge's time fighting it, just pay and move on.

If the facts I presented are correct, there is 0% chance I will be found guilty for a violation of VC 22349B. This is exactly what the legal system is for, it's not a waste of time whatsoever. But.. thanks.

Originally Posted by Pwolf

Trying to fight the semantics of the ticket probably isn't going to get you anywhere. Judge is going to look at this case, see that you were speeding anyway, and just order the records be changed to reflect the correct VC (at best).

If you told the officer you thought the speed limit was 65, you've already just admitted to driving over the limit so trying the "where's the evidence?" line will probably not work well against you if they decided to pull audio/video recordings.

Just take the ticket and do the driving school to get rid of the point.

I don't think you guys understand how the system works.. You don't intentionally plead guilty to a charge that you did not violate, effectively adding points to your record for something that you did not even do.

It's not about 'fighting the semantics of the ticket.' I'd like to at least get some anecdotal or better advice on this subject. The fact that I looked into the ticket and noticed that the officer potentially cited me for the incorrect code is the only reason I brought this up. From what I understand and have read about the process, there is a way for them to amend a citation to reflect the correct code violation, but that may or may not be worth it for them as it takes time. All of the anecdotes I've read or heard regarding an incorrect site resulted in the case being dropped.

'Just pay it and go to traffic school' is exactly what most people do, and I would do that if I was cited for the correct violation.

Originally Posted by Watch Me Run

This is a good video, thanks for that! Great website he linked for finding lawyers too.

[Pwolf]

Originally Posted by Shynee

I don't think you guys understand how the system works..

Dude... You were speeding, you got a ticket for speeding and admitted to it to the officer, which was most likely recorded. Somehow the citation text doesn't seem relevant to me and it may not be relevant to the court.

You are right though, the court may not want to deal with it and just dismiss it if you bring it up. I'm just telling you that it's not as easy as "the citation doesn't match up".

[calic]

You really can't win if the cop shows up. The only chance you have is with a lawyer, but you basically incriminated yourself, when you said you thought it was 65mph. You can file a TBD, then if you lose a Trial de Novo. If the officer was a CHP you have less than a 30% chance of winning, and higher if it's a police or other law enforcement agency. Good luck and try to not get any more tickets within the next year and a half.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Shynee

If the facts I presented are correct, there is 0% chance I will be found guilty for a violation of VC 22349B. This is exactly what the legal system is for, it's not a waste of time whatsoever. But.. thanks.



.

You are guilty of a crime, just not the one cited. The fact that its easy to amend and make you pay is wasting the courts time in the hearing and fixing the officers mistake. You even admitted to him you were speeding.

Fwiw if you fight it and they find you guilty you could also lose the right to traffic school once you contest a citation.