2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia (pronounced "Julia")

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I think the Guilia was initially quoted as 3350 dry Euro spec, 35xx wet Euro spec. For NA our crash standards put the U.S. Guilia above 36xx dry and 3749 wet which is about 100 lbs more than the M3 wet tested in the video. Granted the Giulia runs with 60 more HP and 40 more TQ than the M3 so that's kind of a wash.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed to find this out since everyone has been throwing that 3300 lb figure around. Sounds like the North American one won't be much different from your typical large sports sedan in terms of weight.

[bfrank1972]

It's amazing what these heavier cars are accomplishing now, though I'm sure Kanundrum's FR-S still changes direction a lot better than the Giulia (though I'm sure the Giulia will leave it for dead in most situations). Regarding the exhaust note - I'm thinking straight pipes?

[DAEMANO]

I thought the exhaust sounded pretty darn good at the 6 minute mark of this review.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTn3gaCQYk"]Here's Why the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Is Worth $80,000 - YouTube[/ame]

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

It's amazing what these heavier cars are accomplishing now, though I'm sure Kanundrum's FR-S still changes direction a lot better than the Giulia (though I'm sure the Giulia will leave it for dead in most situations). Regarding the exhaust note - I'm thinking straight pipes?

My FRS was lunacy in a small package, while it did change directions somewhat faster it also was unpredictable and I had to fight it on every single corner haha. The giulia is refined and predictable and amazing in everyway. I was driving to work the other day and was prepared to go to jail because it was perfect weather, I had prodigy blasting and I was driving in Virginia very fast lol.

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I thought the exhaust sounded pretty darn good at the 6 minute mark of this review.

More exhaust clips

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

More exhaust clips

At idle, I can see why people say it sounds truck-like.

Seems like around ~2700 RPMs the note really changes (probably as the Turbos get on boil) and continues up to red line. Off throttle but above 2500 it's glorious.

[serialk11r]

Oh wow, Doug was reviewing your car!

3700lbs is sort of heavy, but I suppose the more fair way to put it is that the F30 M3 is exceptionally light.

[WolfpackS2k]

Road & Track quoted the weight of the QV at 3800 lbs. So that's pretty disappointing and very "me too" unlike the M3 which is noticeably lighter than it's competition. A big problem is the size of these cars today. "Compact" sports sedan my ass...

And these cars handle really well mostly because of the tires. Big fat sticky tires that cost a lot and won't last more than 5,000 miles (the rears at least).

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Road & Track quoted the weight of the QV at 3800 lbs. So that's pretty disappointing and very "me too" unlike the M3 which is noticeably lighter than it's competition. A big problem is the size of these cars today. "Compact" sports sedan my ass...

Well, at least it's not as bad as the British, who manage to make their aluminum chassis cars heavier than the German steel chassis competition lol. The Jaguar F type and Aston Martin Vantage convertibles weigh basically the same as an Alfa Guilia, and they are all aluminum.

But yea, it's funny the few times I have gone to the track or autoX, you see the E46 BMWs next to the F30 cars, and the F30 is wayyyy bigger. It is basically the same size as an older 5 series.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well, at least it's not as bad as the British, who manage to make their aluminum chassis cars heavier than the German steel chassis competition lol. The Jaguar F type and Aston Martin Vantage convertibles weigh basically the same as an Alfa Guilia, and they are all aluminum.

But yea, it's funny the few times I have gone to the track or autoX, you see the E46 BMWs next to the F30 cars, and the F30 is wayyyy bigger. It is basically the same size as an older 5 series.

Fun fact. Steel is about 3x the strength of aluminum and it is also about 3x the weight. The result of this is you may get a small bit of advantage from going to an aluminum frame/chassis but in the structural areas, the advantage is hardly noticeable, and certainly nothing that can't be overshadowed by a steel frame that they did a better job designing.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Fun fact. Steel is about 3x the strength of aluminum and it is also about 3x the weight. The result of this is you may get a small bit of advantage from going to an aluminum frame/chassis but in the structural areas, the advantage is hardly noticeable, and certainly nothing that can't be overshadowed by a steel frame that they did a better job designing.

That's a good point - although strength & stiffness characteristics you're describing vary depending on the type of steel. In the case of automobiles, I think cost weighs heavily into the decision - when trying to reduce weight, you can definitely do this with steel, but I think it's less expensive to do this with aluminum, especially when you're talking about the higher strength steel. Aluminum, while more expensive to repair in your typical shop, is also easier to mold if you're building something with funky body panels. It's also naturally corrosion resistant. Steel, on the other hand, is harder to form and less corrosion resistant, but body panels can handle dings much better and is cheaper to weld/repair.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

That's a good point - although strength & stiffness characteristics you're describing vary depending on the type of steel. In the case of automobiles, I think cost weighs heavily into the decision - when trying to reduce weight, you can definitely do this with steel, but I think it's less expensive to do this with aluminum, especially when you're talking about the higher strength steel. Aluminum, while more expensive to repair in your typical shop, is also easier to mold if you're building something with funky body panels. It's also naturally corrosion resistant. Steel, on the other hand, is harder to form and less corrosion resistant, but body panels can handle dings much better and is cheaper to weld/repair.

That's different though. A mass produced body panel stamped of steel is way stronger than it needs to be to serve its function. An aluminum one will be lighter, end of story, and the only real disadvantages are what you've mentioned with ease of dings and more expensive body repair. It won't be failing under normal use though (i.e. wind rolling over it as you drive down the highway).


I'm talking about frames and other structural components. I think a lot of people think because it is 3x lighter, the parts will be too because you can make the same part but out of aluminum. This is not the case, and I could definitely see a scenario where a dated, half assed aluminum frame has a similar weight to a state of the art steel one that was designed with ultimate weight savings in mind. I'm not talking about the Aston and Jags necessarily but just in general. There are countless other different components between those cars that we haven't taken into account and could be the reason for the weight similarity.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

That's different though. A mass produced body panel stamped of steel is way stronger than it needs to be to serve its function. An aluminum one will be lighter, end of story, and the only real disadvantages are what you've mentioned with ease of dings and more expensive body repair. It won't be failing under normal use though (i.e. wind rolling over it as you drive down the highway).


I'm talking about frames and other structural components. I think a lot of people think because it is 3x lighter, the parts will be too because you can make the same part but out of aluminum. This is not the case, and I could definitely see a scenario where a dated, half assed aluminum frame has a similar weight to a state of the art steel one that was designed with ultimate weight savings in mind. I'm not talking about the Aston and Jags necessarily but just in general. There are countless other different components between those cars that we haven't taken into account and could be the reason for the weight similarity.

Agree 100%.

[serialk11r]

Well, the strength difference of aluminum to steel depends on strength in what way and what exact alloy and temper, but 3 to 1 is being a little too kind to most of the steel on a car. Generally speaking you have to be a lot more clever or use more expensive materials/processes to get steel to be lighter. Since aluminum parts need to be thicker for equivalent tensile strength, you automatically have a stiffness advantage in many cases just by using aluminum.

Of course, British companies like Lotus/Aston/Jag don't have as much resources to figure this out as the German makes, so it is kind of expected that their aluminum chassis are half-assed and thus heavy. The Evora is heavier than a 911 despite having a lighter engine and not an ounce of steel in the body and chassis, PLUS much taller and wider door sills for efficient stiffening, and that comes from a company that tries to sell "lightness".

The other extreme for steel is a full chromoly tube space frame like the Factory Five 818. Steel, but weighs less than the Lotus Elise chassis. I really want one of those with a Ford engine...