Why do people do wild swaps(RB, LS1), when u can just buy a Porsche, Ferrari, etc?

[foodman]

Originally Posted by glamcem

to the OP if someone is really serious about the bang for the buck (in terms of power) buying a used Corvette makes a lot of sense,

This sounds like the most logical and realistic answer...not just a used Corvette; but, even a brand new C7 Stingray would be a better deal/choice.

After the cost of your FRS/BRZ that you most likely bought brand new ($25k), and after the cost of LSx engine/trans and every single sub-system part ($20k if you do all the work), you have at least already spent $45k.

What do you get after that? A little car and chassis that cannot handle its' new powerful +400whp engine. A car with a flimsy tin chassis, suspension and brakes that can't handle 400whp, skinny tires and wheels made for LA's favorite "I'm green" front car and no aero. You also get a car that will most likely have problems and will be nowhere as close to as clean, reliable and problem free as a factory fresh Corvette, or even a used, but unmolested, C6.

After tending to the suspension bits, bbk, much wider wheels and tires and anything else to help handle that new LSx engine, it will be well above that already spent $45k..most likely above $52k, the price of a brand new C7 Stingray. And, I am sure you'll still be spinning wheels and having a hard time getting the power down on those new 255 or 265 tires, which are still too skinny for that new LSx swap.

$52k will get you a brand new C7 Stingray, super wide tires and grip, humongous gigantor brakes, better suspension and a super stiff chassis (probably 500% stiffer than the FRS) that is designed to work with the 450hp engine, fresh and new, reliable and with a warranty, no loose rattles and bits you will surely get from the hacked up Twin, etc etc.

Or, you can get a used C6, maybe even a Z06, and it'll still have all those pros as above with the new C7; but just preowned and at a cheaper cost. A few mods and it'll be easily better.

If you're worried you'll look like a soccor mom, a secretary, a school teacher, Larry the cable guy and/or a whatever if you own a Corvette...then maybe add some ITBs and make it growl like a racecar, add some real wheels (ie: not domestic chrome lol..maybe racing wheels, TWS perhaps), strip it, add a cage, etc. I'm sure it would be easy to make it Not look like a soccor moms car anymore. Lol.

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by foodman

This sounds like the most logical and realistic answer...not just a used Corvette; but, even a brand new C7 Stingray would be a better deal/choice.

After the cost of your FRS/BRZ that you most likely bought brand new ($25k), and after the cost of LSx engine/trans and every single sub-system part ($20k if you do all the work), you have at least already spent $45k.

What do you get after that? A little car and chassis that cannot handle its' new powerful +400whp engine. A car with a flimsy tin chassis, suspension and brakes that can't handle 400whp, skinny tires and wheels made for LA's favorite "I'm green" front car and no aero. You also get a car that will most likely have problems and will be nowhere as close to as clean, reliable and problem free as a factory fresh Corvette, or even a used, but unmolested, C6.

After tending to the suspension bits, bbk, much wider wheels and tires and anything else to help handle that new LSx engine, it will be well above that already spent $45k..most likely above $52k, the price of a brand new C7 Stingray. And, I am sure you'll still be spinning wheels and having a hard time getting the power down on those new 255 or 265 tires, which are still too skinny for that new LSx swap.

$52k will get you a brand new C7 Stingray, super wide tires and grip, humongous gigantor brakes, better suspension and a super stiff chassis (probably 500% stiffer than the FRS) that is designed to work with the 450hp engine, fresh and new, reliable and with a warranty, no loose rattles and bits you will surely get from the hacked up Twin, etc etc.

Or, you can get a used C6, maybe even a Z06, and it'll still have all those pros as above with the new C7; but just preowned and at a cheaper cost. A few mods and it'll be easily better.

If you're worried you'll look like a soccor mom, a secretary, a school teacher, Larry the cable guy and/or a whatever if you own a Corvette...then maybe add some ITBs and make it growl like a racecar, add some real wheels (ie: not domestic chrome lol..maybe racing wheels, TWS perhaps), strip it, add a cage, etc. I'm sure it would be easy to make it Not look like a soccor moms car anymore. Lol.

And then you would have a Corvette like everyone else.....how boring. Tracking a Corvette can get very pricey. Let alone a big " UH OH" when you slam into a tire wall. Its the same reason I sold my Boss 302 LS to start this project, I wanted a car to beat on the track and to be able to afford the consequences of my actions, cause after all this is just a cheap Japanese car that has very good handling capabilities and a lot of potential .....some things your not thinking about, no matter, I think you had your mind up from the start anyways and you were fishing.

[foodman]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

And then you would have a Corvette like everyone else.....how boring. On economics,... this kit is geared more for track orientated FRS/BRZ owners hence Vorshlag stepping up

I wasn't knocking on the swap in any way, shape or form. I was simply stating what you can have for the same amount of money if one was down/willing to spend it all in one given time and in one lump sum..ie: a car.

I'm actually very interested and attracted in the swap still and would love to have it done. I'm also very impressed and inspired by other people's builds and especially Vorshlag's level of quality. I would most likely use Vorshlags kit still if I was to do it in the future.

The swap is no doubt a good thing. Especially if you can source all the parts on the cheap and over time at your own discretion. And also because many already own the Twin..it would be nicer and also more interesting to do the swap in the future instead of going for a corvette. And many people do not like corvettes and also love their Twin.

But for the ones wanting it all in one package, one time and for one lump sum, now, then the C7 or a used C6 is hard to beat.

To me, after watching and reading more reviews of it, it kinda even reminds me of the FRS...as it's always being compared to much higher end cars (similar to how the FRS is compared to the Elise, Cayenne, etc.)...the C7 is always compared to the Carerra, Ferarri, GTR, etc etc..and can actually hold it's own against those cars that cost 2-3x more

Also forgot to mention....C7 is only 3250lbs!!!! That's only 400lbs more than the FRS with an LSx! That pretty dang light for a production 450hp car.

Long A-arm wishbone suspension on all 4 corners too

Carbon fiber fenders...

Functional aero and venting..

What else? Lol.

Just saying what you get for $52 is pretty crazy.

I actually like the looks too (1st time I've thought that for any domestic car)....it reminds me of an NSX with a little bit of Ferrari...the rear quarter windows kinda remind me of the FRS too. Some lines also remind me of some of the new Supra concept lines.

I don't really care if "everyone has it" or if "secretaries drive it"....if it is engineered and designed well and if it performs...that's all that matters to me.

[Hyper4mance2k]

Why isn't this dumb thread in the lounge? It has no business in this forum.

[foodman]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

Tracking a Corvette can get very pricey. Let alone a big " UH OH" when you slam into a tire wall .....some things your not thinking about, no matter, I think you had your mind up from the start anyways and you were fishing.

Tracking would be the same price. Gas, entrance..same price. Tires? Same or similar after you stick fatter tires on the Twin.

Damage at the track... Same/similar price... Tires..same. Fenders..maybe a tad more on the C7. Suspension bits.. Probably same. Other parts.. same. We're talking domestic; not German car. Fluids..same since they're both V8. Total crash? Same price...$50k'ish totaled LSx FRS vs $50k'ish C7.


Now...DD, Street...your argument is actually against you. Total your LSx FRS on the way to McDonald's...insurance will only cover the FRS's $25k value and the rest you spent on the swap and any other parts goes down the drain. Total your C7, insurance company will cover the entire car and the entire $50k

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by foodman

Tracking would be the same price. Gas, entrance..same price. Tires? Same or similar after you stick fatter tires on the Twin.

Damage at the track... Same/similar price... Tires..same. Fenders..maybe a tad more on the C7. Suspension bits.. Probably same. Other parts.. same. We're talking domestic; not German car. Fluids..same since they're both V8. Total crash? Same price...$50k'ish totaled LSx FRS vs $50k'ish C7.


Now...DD, Street...your argument is actually against you. Total your LSx FRS on the way to McDonald's...insurance will only cover the FRS's $25k value and the rest you spent on the swap and any other parts goes down the drain. Total your C7, insurance company will cover the entire car and the entire $50k

Damage at the track......not even close,...tire prices not even close even worse if you don't change the stagger to non stagger on the vette,...brakes,...not even close.. Replacing the shell and swapping parts.....not even close. Not concerned about driving to McDonalds.

[foodman]

It's a domestic..it's a corvette..there will be millions of aftermarket support and options..pads and rotors Will be cheap or the same price as bbk bits for the Twin. Even PMu pads are pretty dang expensive if you ask me.

Fenders, chassis sections, frame sections, other parts...these will all be cheap as they will sell grip loads of these cheap $50k corvettes and the junkyards will be filled with them. Not to mention aftermarket/generic fenders, parts, etc.

But I get your point and of course ...no doubt frs/brz replacement parts will cheaper.. Because it's simply a cheaper car. No argument there

Tires..yes..no doubt the huge 19/20" staggered tires will be expensive. But it's not like it's going to be astronomically more expensive like 3-4x more. The wider the tire on the C6/C7, the less the heat, the less the wear...especially for 450whp. Now, 255 tires on an LSx FRS? Lol..that LSx will eat those dinky 255-265 tires for breakfast and will still want seconds. Just the truth.

But, I can't afford the Corvette anyways, even if it is a bargain ...so I will most likely just do a swap to the Twin as well

I also like being incog...and it doesn't get much sleeper than an FRS with an LSx, now does it


Anyways... and in regards to the positivities of an LSx FRS swap....I can easily forsee in 5-10+ years from now that used Twins will be extremely cheap, especially high mileage ones and also because Toyota is simply making/selling soo many of them. These will probably sell for $10k'ish used in 10years....making the Twin the perfect platform for a budget LSx swap build in the future...but as a brand new $25k car...not really lol.

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by foodman

It's a domestic..it's a corvette..there will be millions of aftermarket support and options..pads and rotors Will be cheap or the same price as bbk bits for the Twin. Even PMu pads are pretty dang expensive if you ask me.

Fenders, chassis sections, frame sections, other parts...these will all be cheap as they will sell grip loads of these cheap $50k corvettes and the junkyards will be filled with them. Not to mention aftermarket/generic fenders, parts, etc.

But I get your point and of course ...no doubt frs/brz replacement parts will cheaper.. Because it's simply a cheaper car. No argument there

Tires..yes..no doubt the huge 19/20" staggered tires will be expensive. But it's not like it's going to be astronomically more expensive like 3-4x more. The wider the tire on the C6/C7, the less the heat, the less the wear...especially for 450whp. Now, 255 tires on an LSx FRS? Lol..that LSx will eat those dinky 255-265 tires for breakfast and will still want seconds. Just the truth.

But, I can't afford the Corvette anyways, even if it is a bargain ...so I will most likely just do a swap to the Twin as well

I also like being incog...and it doesn't get much sleeper than an FRS with an LSx, now does it


Anyways... and in regards to the positivities of an LSx FRS swap....I can easily forsee in 5-10+ years from now that used Twins will be extremely cheap, especially high mileage ones and also because Toyota is simply making/selling soo many of them. These will probably sell for $10k'ish used in 10years....making the Twin the perfect platform for a budget LSx swap build in the future...but as a brand new $25k car...not really lol.

I'm not going for big horsepower numbers, I'll leave that for the street racers and the dyno queens. Your confusing your goals with my goals and this swap is the perfect solution for me, and I suspect many more. Tire size wise , sticky 255's will work fine, I had 245's on with 400rwp with the turbo set up with no problems (sans wet pavement)on the street. What I'm doing isn't the model everyone will follow,....i.e. taking a almost brand new FRS and doing this but I can afford it. I can tell you that Vorshlag from the release of this car and its underwhelming powerplant has been inundated with requests to make this a possibility. As compared to the Miata swap kits this is a much more rigid more modern platform to start out with, there is a lot of swapped Miatas out there btw, in the near future you will see as many or more swapped 86's.

[foodman]

The biggest pro/positive would be the lighter weight obviously...which attracts me greatly.

The C7 is more realistically 3400+ lbs. Which is a a big diff than 2800 of an LSx FRS. That's like the FRS fully packed with three 200lb friends, or two really fat friends.

As much as I'm honestly digging all these newly viewed (to me) great reviews of the C7 on YouTube and how much I'm impressed and sold on how the reviews state how well it performs around the track and all the stuff it comes with, idk if I could buy a domestic car still. There's too much car-racism with them domestic folks that put me off and I don't want to be associated with that kind of American, hot rod, drag/dyno queen, arrogant ignorance lol. I'd rather have a more handling/track/driver focused, non obnoxious, refined/precise car, a more humble community, like a sports import.

I'm really wondering how well it would handle with the slightly extra/diff weight and also especially with having so much tq/whp. I wonder if it'll still have a good all around balance and still handle similarly to an Elise or a Cayman like in stock form? If yes, then we might have a rival to the faster Porsche, the Carrera/911

That would be the best video review ever for the Vorshlag kit (or, any other LSx FRS swap really... Motor Trend, Drive or other YouTube car channels....if you're reading, please do this, lol)... LSx FRS vs. Porsche Carerra 911 ...preferably reviewed by randy pobst



.

[EAGLE5]

An LSX or other big power swap is probably best for insane darifting, drag racing, or just having something unique and fun. If you want drivability, usability, track performance, and value, a normal Vette will likely do better. If your stock FA20 blows, though, well, then the value equation changes some. And no matter what, you're never getting a Vette down to FR-S weight. Soooo... to each his own.

[cdrazic93]

eh you could strip the whole car, no interior and AC, plastic windows and a roll cage but then its hardly a DD car while weighing the most of 2700 lbs.

The thing is too, if people cant afford the insurance on some of these super nice sports cars, might as well do a swap into a car thats easier to insure (on the most basic level, insruance on parts and stuffs come into play at that point but that would take too long to explain).

[adprokid]

this would be a wild swap

http://www.jp-carparts.com/toyota/pa...1&part=2595001

[foodman]

This ain't bad one bit
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=806245686055805
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=543445882405871

The new C7 is no doubt super nice with all the new bits and pieces it has for performance (that aero, dry sump, race style diff/trans coolers in the fender with formed cowling, magnetic dampers, ediff, 1.08 lateral g, big brakes with cooling ducts, a-arms galore, etc etc.)

But here are some real world and realistic cons of owning a Vette I don't want to deal with on a daily basis:
- looking like a rich douche (I know it's only $52k..but thats still expensive for the majority of the people and only upper middle class and rich people with a lot of extra money can buy it)
- looking like a redneck car-racist hick with commonly overt domestic car pride and ignorance and hatred towards Japanese/European cars and is only interested in ***** drag racing.
- too much attention. Won't even be able to park or go anywhere without people noticing your much too "flashy" new car all the time (it'd get old real quick I bet).. simple stuff like a restaurant, a party, movies, gas station, etc.
- a little too luxury and too high tech with all the electronic adjustments for susp, engine, traction and every single little thing. I prefer simple, analog and to the point...only 1 setting (like an FRS w an LSx )

I think I would love having an LSx Twin more for dd/street...it'll be way more incog, sleeper and 100x more humble. And it'll also be a much simpler, analog, "1 setting" and back to basics kinda car..which I more prefer

After comparing the dimensions of the C6/C7 (and also 911)...I am surprised at how small the corvette really is. It has pretty much the same dimensions as the FT86 give or take a few inches in all dimensions - width, wheelbase, height and overall length is very similar. I always thought the Vette and a 911 would be like 1ft wider than a compact economy japanese sportscar like the FT86 (like Honda civic dimensions lol) and I always thought that the FT86's dimensions might not be great to handle a powerful LSx engine on the track...but to my amazement, the FT86 is very very similar in all dimensions to the C6/C7 and also even the Porsche. Wow! ...but with a much lighter weight than a C7 or 911...I think this really would be the best platform..and with an LSx swap, bbk and better suspension, this can probably destroy vettes and porsches at the track all day long. It has the balance, the low weight, the proper wide width/stance of a real sports car, the agile/precision steering/handling..all it needs is more power. I wonder if this would be a Vette/Porsche killer on the track.

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by foodman

This ain't bad one bit
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=806245686055805
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=543445882405871

The new C7 is no doubt super nice with all the new bits and pieces it has for performance (that aero, dry sump, race style diff/trans coolers in the fender with formed cowling, magnetic dampers, ediff, 1.08 lateral g, big brakes with cooling ducts, a-arms galore, etc etc.)

But here are some real world and realistic cons of owning a Vette I don't want to deal with on a daily basis:
- looking like a rich douche (I know it's only $52k..but thats still expensive for the majority of the people and only upper middle class and rich people with a lot of extra money can buy it)
- looking like a redneck car-racist hick with commonly overt domestic car pride and ignorance and hatred towards Japanese/European cars and is only interested in ***** drag racing.
- too much attention. Won't even be able to park or go anywhere without people noticing your much too "flashy" new car all the time (it'd get old real quick I bet).. simple stuff like a restaurant, a party, movies, gas station, etc.
- a little too luxury and too high tech with all the electronic adjustments for susp, engine, traction and every single little thing. I prefer simple, analog and to the point...only 1 setting (like an FRS w an LSx )

I think I would love having an LSx Twin more for dd/street...it'll be way more incog, sleeper and 100x more humble. And it'll also be a much simpler, analog, "1 setting" and back to basics kinda car..which I more prefer

After comparing the dimensions of the C6/C7 (and also 911)...I am surprised at how small the corvette really is. It has pretty much the same dimensions as the FT86 give or take a few inches in all dimensions - width, wheelbase, height and overall length is very similar. I always thought the Vette and a 911 would be like 1ft wider than a compact economy japanese sportscar like the FT86 (like Honda civic dimensions lol) and I always thought that the FT86's dimensions might not be great to handle a powerful LSx engine on the track...but to my amazement, the FT86 is very very similar in all dimensions to the C6/C7 and also even the Porsche. Wow! ...but with a much lighter weight than a C7 or 911...I think this really would be the best platform..and with an LSx swap, bbk and better suspension, this can probably destroy vettes and porsches at the track all day long. It has the balance, the low weight, the proper wide width/stance of a real sports car, the agile/precision steering/handling..all it needs is more power. I wonder if this would be a Vette/Porsche killer on the track.

Just about any car can be made to destroy a corvette on the track with the right amount of money/upgrades,.....and just about any driver can destroy another driver driving a much lessor car if he has more skills. I would like to see any vette or 911 in any form, race car etc. beat this guy up this hill.....no big displacement engine involved...its a Gixer engine in that thing, meaning comparisons and bold statements are relative.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7YGVEMlHPs"]The fastet Hill Climb Car of the World - YouTube[/ame]