Toyobaru joint project, but who's manufacturing / designing what?

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by CptCaveman

Well, they have the brand loyal people. But I believe that there are no other vehicles that could really compete with this car and have a brand name established. I only see the Genesis competing with this vehicle, and they are fairly new to the market with no proven name. Well as far as I know.

More car companies could also enter in this market and cause more competition. If Subaru only produces a 2.5NA with RWD and price it economically then sure they can probably do well. But if they plan to offer STI like performance in rwd then it could get expensive quickly. Plus, they still have to be sure that Toyota doesn't come with a higher hp version and basically stick to the 2L; otherwise both brands would be competing against each other on a project they both developed.

[RadOnc]

Originally Posted by 86Fan

More car companies could also enter in this market and cause more competition. If Subaru only produces a 2.5NA with RWD and price it economically then sure they can probably do well. But if they plan to offer STI like performance in rwd then it could get expensive quickly. Plus, they still have to be sure that Toyota doesn't come with a higher hp version and basically stick to the 2L; otherwise both brands would be competing against each other on a project they both developed.

I hope they had the forsight to agree to market the two cars differently, with drivetrain options that were in different categories and not try to complete against each other. I cant imagine that would help anyone involved, including us!

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by RadOnc

I hope they had the forsight to agree to market the two cars differently, with drivetrain options that were in different categories and not try to complete against each other. I cant imagine that would help anyone involved, including us!

That is why AWD coupe would make sense for Subaru. I'm just looking at this from a financial standpoint. This car is still a long ways from production ready but the future seems to be heading towards small efficient cars.

[RadOnc]

Originally Posted by 86Fan

That is why AWD coupe would make sense for Subaru. I'm just looking at this from a financial standpoint. This car is still a long ways from production ready but the future seems to be heading towards small efficient cars.

I agree with you, they really should go with the AWD route and Toyota go with RWD. Thats what differentiates subarus from other competitors in every other market, why shouldn't they do it in this one. That way, everyone wins. Hopefully they take your advice, or already thought of this ahead of time...

[Jordo!]

AWD cars are for rally racing and off roading it. Sports cars for the road or track are pretty much always RWD not AWD.

Now that they are out of the WRC there is absolutely no reason for Subaru to create a AWD layout for a small, agile, 2-door sports car, except possibly as a limited run special edition for those who really think they need it (they don't).

The only reason Subaru ever had AWD cars in the line-up was because of their particpation in WRC, not because of some higher principal about the "beauty of AWD".

It will be much cheaper to produce and easier to sell the car as is.

I really think the model here is Firebird/Camaro -- those cars were, for the most part, only cosmetically different, and GM had no problem selling both to happy consumers who picked whichever one they liked best (I was a FB man, myself ).

They both existed (and died) at the same time. Odds are both would have been resurrected together as well had GM not nearly gone under.

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

AWD cars are for rally racing and off roading it. Sports cars for the road or track are pretty much always RWD not AWD.

Now that they are out of the WRC there is absolutely no reason for Subaru to create a AWD layout for a small, agile, 2-door sports car, except possibly as a limited run special edition for those who really think they need it (they don't).

The only reason Subaru ever had AWD cars in the line-up was because of their particpation in WRC, not because of some higher principal about the "beauty of AWD".

It will be much cheaper to produce and easier to sell the car as is.

I really think the model here is Firebird/Camaro -- those cars were, for the most part, only cosmetically different, and GM had no problem selling both to happy consumers who picked whichever one they liked best (I was a FB man, myself ).

They both existed (and died) at the same time. Odds are both would have been resurrected together as well had GM not nearly gone under.

Just looking at it from a business perspective mainly. But I'll say this about RWD and AWD. AWD can be good track cars... GTR, STI, EVO's are great track cars. My favorite is going to be the Audi RS5 which will launch within this year and you're going to be surprised at it's performance once it's released. It really depends on what the customer is looking for; both have their benefits.

[86Fan]

I think most car companies are suffering from the economic downturn and subaru is definetly not immuned. Their awd platform is a niche product no doubt but entering the rwd market could result in even more competition. I mean they could keep their core customers happy, but getting new customers might be difficult since there will be other alternatives due to the fact that more car companies are seemingly introducing small sports car's.

Subie needs to release some specs about the car.

[MR2fan]

Before reading the last few points I woulda bet the farm that the Subaru 086a would be AWD but you guys are making some good points as to why it might not be AWD afterall.

I can now see how this could be a Camaro/Firebird distinction, or like an Eclipse/Talon DSM joint project car. If I remember correctly Those cars were basically the same right.

[86Fan]

The market didn't have big v8 coupes back then. Besides the Firebird and Camaro both were pulled back in 2002 due to slow sales.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by MR2fan

Before reading the last few points I woulda bet the farm that the Subaru 086a would be AWD but you guys are making some good points as to why it might not be AWD afterall.

I can now see how this could be a Camaro/Firebird distinction, or like an Eclipse/Talon DSM joint project car. If I remember correctly Those cars were basically the same right.

Yep.

But the best evidence for no AWD option is that nothing has been announced.

I'd say there's maybe a 10% a Sti version will get it, but I wouldn't expect it to be regular option for the base car.

Originally Posted by 86Fan

The market didn't have big v8 coupes back then. Besides the Firebird and Camaro both were pulled back in 2002 due to slow sales.

Correct -- that's why I said they lived and died on the same timeline. In other words, though essentially the same car, they coexisted in the market, and both were popular ponycars. One didn't kill the other -- both were on the road.

If GM wasn't still pretty much in the toilet, there'd probably be a new Firebird to go with the new Camaro too. I wouldn't be shocked if one gets released in the near future, assuming the Camaro sells well.

[86Fan]

Right. What i'm saying though is the market for v8 coupes was smaller back then. Subaru could face some tough competition in the future when they enter the rwd market, especially if they decide to go and build 300hp coupes.

[Jordo!]

Well... rather than rely on my amazing psychic powers, I'll just say this: If the Subaru version comes with AWD, I'll recant and apologize. I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Well... rather than rely on my amazing psychic powers, I'll just say this: If the Subaru version comes with AWD, I'll recant and apologize. I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong

Heh no need to apologize, it's just speculation anyways. But man... such a long wait. Lucky my solara is still holding up.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by Axel

They shouldn't have much competition from Nissan's Z, which Top Gear calls a "Fat Bastard"...

They also didn't like the 350Z much, and that car only went on to rejuvenate the affordable sports car market singlehandedly. The 370Z is better in every way compared to the 350Z.

Don't take the Z car lightly. It's probably the best bang for the buck sports car this side of a 'vette.