Opinion on rep kits?

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by NRXRaptor

So if you put lots of time and effort into designing and making something you'd be ok with it if I stole those designs to make money for myself? Literally copy paste your product, sell it for profit, and give you nothing in return? Potentially ruining your livelihood? I doubt that very much

I would readjust my margins/marketing to regain a competitive edge like every other business does on a constant basis when their market share is budged by similar/replica products.

IDK. Business 101?

You realize this happens all the time right? it's basically common practice in every industry. Think of a few product lines that have come out over the last few years and tell me how many of them were able to hold on to exclusivity? I'll wait.

So in short no, I wouldn't mind because it's to be expected.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[NRXRaptor]

Originally Posted by olsonpg

I would readjust my margins/marketing to regain a competitive edge like every other business does on a constant basis when their market share is budged by similar/replica products.

IDK. Business 101?

You realize this happens all the time right? it's basically common practice in every industry. Think of a few product lines that have come out over the last few years and tell me how many of them were able to hold on to exclusivity? I'll wait.

So in short no, I wouldn't mind because it's to be expected.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Literally what are patents? Everything that made and makes money has patents behind it Entrepreneurial espionage isn't common practice and no one likes it. That's why patents are a thing: Invent a thing, patent it, make money because that thing is EXCLUSIVE to you, and when the patent runs out a quarter century or so later, other people can jump on the band wagon. Without patents to prevent theft, cheap skates would just wait while other people poured orders of magnitude more time, effort, and money to make the thing they would poach. That is not how business works. Business works because people are confident that if they invent something, they can apply for patents to secure their rights to their intellectual property to prevent its theft, ensuring they will be able to make ROI. Assuming of course, people want to actually pay money for the thing that was invented

[NRXRaptor]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This is a fiberglass kit.
In my experience the bigger and more complex the chunk of fiberglass is the worse it is to get to fit and the more likely it is to crack even if you do manage to get it on. You couldn't pay me to use a fiberglass body kit.

You could pay me to use a fiberglass kit so long that its enough for me to get a proper wide body kit, a la Varis or Rocket Bunny

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by NRXRaptor

Literally what are patents? Everything that made and makes money has patents behind it Entrepreneurial espionage isn't common practice and no one likes it. That's why patents are a thing: Invent a thing, patent it, make money because that thing is EXCLUSIVE to you, and when the patent runs out a quarter century or so later, other people can jump on the band wagon. Without patents to prevent theft, cheap skates would just wait while other people poured orders of magnitude more time, effort, and money to make the thing they would poach. That is not how business works. Business works because people are confident that if they invent something, they can apply for patents to secure their rights to their intellectual property to prevent its theft, ensuring they will be able to make ROI. Assuming of course, people want to actually pay money for the thing that was invented

Again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but entrepreneurial espionage is not just common practice but a staple in most large corporations.

But please I invite you to present a product line that was invented in the last few years that was able to hold on to an exclusivity, because you know they more than likely filed a number of patents. I’m still waiting .

You realize how easy it is to get around a patent. Change a small thing here, adjust another thing there and tada, your patent no longer has legal grounds.

Here are some articles to chew on. But don’t just take Forbes’s word for it take mine too. I’m involved in product creation in a medium sized corporation and it would surprise you how much we copy and paste. It surprised me at first. Not only have I done the same at this point with a few minor adjustments but the CEO brags about certain direct “ripoffs” that have net millions of dollars.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhix.../#3a8fe0e53ef3

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephen.../#71101f5956f3

A few takeaways if you don't feel like reading.

-Don’t base your business strategy on patents. And don’t try to raise money primarily on the basis of patents; most likely this will fail and you will appear naïve.
-It will rarely make sense for a small company to sue a big company for patent infringement. The lawyers will probably be the winners.
-Build your business on real competitive advantages: product value-in-use, customer relationships, rapid innovation. Don’t count on patents to defend you from your competitors.
-You may be able to deter others from working around by building a ‘wall’ of intellectual property around your technology. But most patents are written far too narrowly for that to be the case. With a little effort, they are easily worked around.
-In some industries, patents are absolutely critical. But in far more they are not.
It’s a well-known fact that a vast majority of patents are worthless. Around 97% of all patents never recoup the cost of filing them.

[zeal86]

I recently purchased a replica and I am ecstatic I did...the Aimgain SN type 1 kit has been my favorite kit for a while. The kit is very expensive...especially for me at this point. When I started my build I had 0 kids, I now have 3. So I had to figure out how I was going to arrive at my desired outcome.

I first tried to see if there was any mutual interest in a sponsorship...apparently not enough. So I started researching and looking into used Aimgain SN kits. Asking price for a used kit was just as much as a new kit. No thanks... it is not gold nor a safety related part.

I only really wanted the fenders and skirts. My goal is to make this kit my own. So by chance I found a company called victory9racing out of Cali. They sold the kit in parts which is something that Aimgain SN does not. If I would have purchased the full Aimgain kit just for the fenders and skirts I would have had to deal with the hassle of selling the lip spoiler, diffuser, and spoiler that I had no plans on using (unless sponsored)...shipping is expensive!

So I contacted a sales rep from victory9racing and asked a bunch of questions... eventually I asked if he could put me in touch with a owner of their rep kit so I can ask them their opinion. He did by providing me an Instagram handle. What I was told about the kit convinced me to make the purchase.

I was not disappointed. The kit is extremely well made and fits just the same. Fitment was right there with my Uras kit but the Fiberglass/Kevlar was of higher quality.

My points on this topic...

-I attempted to support authenticity to the extent that my finances at this point in my build allowed. My two planned avenues to do this were not possible.

-Aimgain should sell their kit in parts... I would have purchased from them. They have allowed others to develop market opportunities by not doing so. The rivet-less look of their fenders is what people really want. Why force us to purchase the full kit to support authenticity? I like my ride to be unique...my plan was to build my wide body exterior off their fender style.

-I saved $2750 which I will put towards other costs associated with going wide. Wheels, tires, paint and body, supplies (if you are doing your own work), etc...

-Do your research... there are replica companies that produce outstanding parts. A guy on my team used kd-aero stop. I heard great things about the wide body kit from him and our other team mate who is a paint and body guy. Not all authentic parts are created equal, nor are replica parts. Replica doesn't necessarily mean bad quality or fitment.

-As mentioned previously by @olsonpg this type of behavior or outcomes are to be expected. It has been the nature of business since virtually the beginning. Why buy Tylenol when I can buy the store brand that is virtually as effective and less expensive.

-Replicas provide alternatives as they did in my case.

I would definitely recommend victory9racing if you decide on pursuing a high quality replica Aimgain SN kit. I think it is going for $1600 right now. No diffuser or spoiler.


__________________________________________

projekt zeal86 build

zeal.eightsix Facebook

Instagram @zeal.eightsix

[NRXRaptor]

Originally Posted by olsonpg

Again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but entrepreneurial espionage is not just common practice but a staple in most large corporations.

But please I invite you to present a product line that was invented in the last few years that was able to hold on to an exclusivity, because you know they more than likely filed a number of patents. I’m still waiting .

You realize how easy it is to get around a patent. Change a small thing here, adjust another thing there and tada, your patent no longer has legal grounds.

Here are some articles to chew on. But don’t just take Forbes’s word for it take mine too. I’m involved in product creation in a medium sized corporation and it would surprise you how much we copy and paste. It surprised me at first. Not only have I done the same at this point with a few minor adjustments but the CEO brags about certain direct “ripoffs” that have net millions of dollars.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhix.../#3a8fe0e53ef3

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephen.../#71101f5956f3

A few takeaways if you don't feel like reading.

-Don’t base your business strategy on patents. And don’t try to raise money primarily on the basis of patents; most likely this will fail and you will appear naïve.
-It will rarely make sense for a small company to sue a big company for patent infringement. The lawyers will probably be the winners.
-Build your business on real competitive advantages: product value-in-use, customer relationships, rapid innovation. Don’t count on patents to defend you from your competitors.
-You may be able to deter others from working around by building a ‘wall’ of intellectual property around your technology. But most patents are written far too narrowly for that to be the case. With a little effort, they are easily worked around.
-In some industries, patents are absolutely critical. But in far more they are not.
It’s a well-known fact that a vast majority of patents are worthless. Around 97% of all patents never recoup the cost of filing them.

Innocence lost I guess. I still won't buy rep kits though or any widebody for that matter. I don't want to cut up my car. With regards to patents it is my understanding that patents are made in a preemptive manner, so just in case the thing is useful you have the patent for it. Most things people come up with obviously aren't useful. Stealing people's work is dishonest to me. Believe it or not I never copied anyone's homework - or allowed mine to be copied - throughout my scholastic career, and I will clutch onto that notion even if it sets me back monetarily

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by NRXRaptor

Innocence lost I guess. I still won't buy rep kits though or any widebody for that matter. I don't want to cut up my car. With regards to patents it is my understanding that patents are made in a preemptive manner, so just in case the thing is useful you have the patent for it. Most things people come up with obviously aren't useful. Stealing people's work is dishonest to me. Believe it or not I never copied anyone's homework - or allowed mine to be copied - throughout my scholastic career, and I will clutch onto that notion even if it sets me back monetarily

The world of making money is a brutal dishonest place.

Cheers tho, i understand your point of view and its good to have that and support the companies that deserve it.

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by zeal86

I recently purchased a replica and I am ecstatic I did...the Aimgain SN type 1 kit has been my favorite kit for a while. The kit is very expensive...especially for me at this point. When I started my build I had 0 kids, I now have 3. So I had to figure out how I was going to arrive at my desired outcome.

I first tried to see if there was any mutual interest in a sponsorship...apparently not enough. So I started researching and looking into used Aimgain SN kits. Asking price for a used kit was just as much as a new kit. No thanks... it is not gold nor a safety related part.

I only really wanted the fenders and skirts. My goal is to make this kit my own. So by chance I found a company called victory9racing out of Cali. They sold the kit in parts which is something that Aimgain SN does not. If I would have purchased the full Aimgain kit just for the fenders and skirts I would have had to deal with the hassle of selling the lip spoiler, diffuser, and spoiler that I had no plans on using (unless sponsored)...shipping is expensive!

So I contacted a sales rep from victory9racing and asked a bunch of questions... eventually I asked if he could put me in touch with a owner of their rep kit so I can ask them their opinion. He did by providing me an Instagram handle. What I was told about the kit convinced me to make the purchase.

I was not disappointed. The kit is extremely well made and fits just the same. Fitment was right there with my Uras kit but the Fiberglass/Kevlar was of higher quality.

My points on this topic...

-I attempted to support authenticity to the extent that my finances at this point in my build allowed. My two planned avenues to do this were not possible.

-Aimgain should sell their kit in parts... I would have purchased from them. They have allowed others to develop market opportunities by not doing so. The rivet-less look of their fenders is what people really want. Why force us to purchase the full kit to support authenticity? I like my ride to be unique...my plan was to build my wide body exterior off their fender style.

-I saved $2750 which I will put towards other costs associated with going wide. Wheels, tires, paint and body, supplies (if you are doing your own work), etc...

-Do your research... there are replica companies that produce outstanding parts. A guy on my team used kd-aero stop. I heard great things about the wide body kit from him and our other team mate who is a paint and body guy. Not all authentic parts are created equal, nor are replica parts. Replica doesn't necessarily mean bad quality or fitment.

-As mentioned previously by @olsonpg this type of behavior or outcomes are to be expected. It has been the nature of business since virtually the beginning. Why buy Tylenol when I can buy the store brand that is virtually as effective and less expensive.

-Replicas provide alternatives as they did in my case.

I would definitely recommend victory9racing if you decide on pursuing a high quality replica Aimgain SN kit. I think it is going for $1600 right now. No diffuser or spoiler.


__________________________________________

projekt zeal86 build

zeal.eightsix Facebook

Instagram @zeal.eightsix

Nice to see another succuessful replica story. I've been more than happy with my Ikon rocket bunny. I think I saved over 3,500.

Cant wait to see how your build turns out

[NRXRaptor]

Originally Posted by olsonpg

The world of making money is a brutal dishonest place.

Cheers tho, i understand your point of view and its good to have that and support the companies that deserve it.

I interned/worked briefly in an office setting because having a 4 year degree qualified me for it (spoiler: I got it because I went to the same school as the interviewer) and I hated it. "Performance reviews" and "metrics" galore. Now I'm at the local community college trying to get into the impacted nursing program. I helped take care of a family friend's aging dad for a while. I figure if I don't hate changing an old man's depends then I'll at least last longer than most in a healthcare setting. Just wish I got my 4 year degree knowing what the hell I want to do with it. If I am ever in a position to give high schoolers advice I always tell them school is a huge waste of time and money if you don't know precisely what you want to get out of it. Ramble ramble ramble

[x808drifter]

With the popular kits for this car I feel the real ones are way overpriced for what you are getting.

I understand the need for markup but come on.
If the price gap was only a few hundred between the real one and the well made fakes, most would gladly get the real kit.

But when you are asking $2,000+ with very little difference in quality, why waste money.

Just how much of that cost do you think is actually going into Kei's pocket?
I certain greddy are taking most of the money for themselves.

I honestly wonder just how much cheaper it'd be to buy direct from Kei Miura.
It'd probably cut the cost down quite a bit. Probably even bring it close to the cost of the reps.

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by olsonpg

Again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but entrepreneurial espionage is not just common practice but a staple in most large corporations.

But please I invite you to present a product line that was invented in the last few years that was able to hold on to an exclusivity, because you know they more than likely filed a number of patents. I’m still waiting .

You realize how easy it is to get around a patent. Change a small thing here, adjust another thing there and tada, your patent no longer has legal grounds.

Here are some articles to chew on. But don’t just take Forbes’s word for it take mine too. I’m involved in product creation in a medium sized corporation and it would surprise you how much we copy and paste. It surprised me at first. Not only have I done the same at this point with a few minor adjustments but the CEO brags about certain direct “ripoffs” that have net millions of dollars.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhix.../#3a8fe0e53ef3

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephen.../#71101f5956f3

A few takeaways if you don't feel like reading.

-Don’t base your business strategy on patents. And don’t try to raise money primarily on the basis of patents; most likely this will fail and you will appear naïve.
-It will rarely make sense for a small company to sue a big company for patent infringement. The lawyers will probably be the winners.
-Build your business on real competitive advantages: product value-in-use, customer relationships, rapid innovation. Don’t count on patents to defend you from your competitors.
-You may be able to deter others from working around by building a ‘wall’ of intellectual property around your technology. But most patents are written far too narrowly for that to be the case. With a little effort, they are easily worked around.
-In some industries, patents are absolutely critical. But in far more they are not.
It’s a well-known fact that a vast majority of patents are worthless. Around 97% of all patents never recoup the cost of filing them.

Apple

However you did also say "in the last few years". So technically that doesnt count.


But in all seriousness you are still correct. Why do you think there are so many versions of a Knife? Or a Coffee grinder? Or something as simple as a fork. They are all "reps". Did they pay the person who first invented the fork? Probably not. They just made a new fork, with a different metal, using a different process. Everything is a ripoff of something in some way or form. I mean just turn on the radio and listen to the top 40 for a few minutes =D.

[NRXRaptor]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

Apple

However you did also say "in the last few years". So technically that doesnt count.


But in all seriousness you are still correct. Why do you think there are so many versions of a Knife? Or a Coffee grinder? Or something as simple as a fork. They are all "reps". Did they pay the person who first invented the fork? Probably not. They just made a new fork, with a different metal, using a different process. Everything is a ripoff of something in some way or form. I mean just turn on the radio and listen to the top 40 for a few minutes =D.

With music there aren't actually THAT many ways to combine sounds using the same instruments to make something that most people thinks sounds good. I watched a video about why music "sounds the same." Was pretty interesting

[erikfallout]

I know the fenders would be a huge hit or miss with the fitment. But what about the RB V1 front splitter and rear diffuser? Ive seen a ton of people with them and they look good but I wanted your guys' opinions.

[thecarfilmer]

Originally Posted by erikfallout

I know the fenders would be a huge hit or miss with the fitment. But what about the RB V1 front splitter and rear diffuser? Ive seen a ton of people with them and they look good but I wanted your guys' opinions.

i have both and they fit alright. the ends on the front lip are a little too tight on the bumper and the rear diffuser has a slight gap on the curve that goes downwards along the oem diffuser. gonna mention that i have the abs plastic version of the diffuser so any warpage can cause odd fitment issues.