FRS vs S14 Silvia/240sx: Handling Opinions?

[Sideways&Smiling]

Hey, guys. I am an S14 240sx owner and have recently bought a lot of quality parts for it. DG-5 Suspension Magic coilovers, full SPL Parts suspension (everything they make for the S-chassis), and an OS Giken Spec X 2-way clutch-type LSD. The goal was to give it as much handling prowess as possible and work on a motor swap/power afterward.

HOWEVER, I have recently become very interested in the FRS/BRZ, and I am considering selling off all my parts (many of them are still brand new in box and not installed yet) & the 240, and putting a down payment on an FRS/BRZ. I haven't had a test drive yet, but will be having one as soon as possible.

So, I am curious about the opinions from some of you guys, since I have been lurking this forum for a few months and have seen that a good amount of you guys have owned built S-chassis cars. Obviously, stock vs stock, the FRS is probably the better option... it's much newer, better looking, has a nicer interior, has a good warranty, and well setup handling/steering already right out of the box (according to all the reviews), but I'm sure many of you know the 240 has a lot of potential with the right aftermarket parts and quite easy to make big power now in the world of Mazworx SR20VETs and LSX or 2JZ swaps, but with all that and the age of the car aside...... Can a 240sx with fully built suspension handle as well or better than the twins? I mean, sure, it's an old car, but with high quality coilovers and suspension + a real mechanical clutch-type LSD (as opposed to the Torsen), surely it could handle very well?

Like I said, hopefully going for a test drive soon, but interested in your opinions!

[TylerLieberman]

I had a 98 S14 for like 4 years.

To put the FRS simply:

Drives down the road like an S14.
Drives on the track like an S13.

[Max Schnell]

I am not a 86 owner so I am giving you my few cents based upon test drives only and prior ownership of a modded turbo 240sx.

The 240sx handles when setup right but ultimately the chassis is old and flexes a lot. Braces are plentiful for the 240sx because the chassis need them to stiffen enough to take advantage of the upgraded suspension. In addition the Brakes are weak in stock format, no helical diff factory, swaybars are too thin, bushings are too soft, wheels are a joke, seats are meh, etc.

So the FRS/BRZ has 20 years of advancement in technology when it comes to chassis design and rigidity. That alone is a nice advantage. The other thing is that no matter how much you reinforce the 240sx it is now almost 20 years old and will suffer from age related problems.

My opinion is that with the rapidly developing aftermarket for the twins, the smaller size and new chassis the twins win if you have the budget.

That aside, if you don't care about new, knows how to browse Zilvia and ebay for deals, and is patient you can build a killer handling 240sx for about half of the price of a new twin and pack at least 300+whp to boot.

[Tofu driver's Fr-s]

I Still have my 98 240 and a Fr-s and I love the feel of both of them. They are both stock and honestly each has their pro/cons. yes it newer, looks can be argued, interior is nicer/more updated, warranty is a big bonus(if you don't mod the 86), and yes the 86's handling is great although the stock tires are trash. my only real knock on the 240 is replacement parts are getting harder to come by so i think that should be taken into consideration.
Personally I think you need to look more at what your situation is if you can afford to go either way then get a new car and enjoy it. They are both amazing cars so you wont regret whichever car you go with.
Just my really long .02

[Wolfking]

Perhaps I'm not the guy to ask! I purchased my new 1998 5spd S14 in August of that year. I mildly modified it... I drove my car for 11yrs. Stock vs. stock, I'd have to say S14!

I loved my S14 from day-1. I wasn't "feeling" my FRS until I hit 5k miles. I'd like to give it a chance, however If Nissan wakes up and produces a worthy S16...

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Wolfking

Perhaps I'm not the guy to ask! I purchased my new 1998 5spd S14 in August of that year. I mildly modified it... I drove my car for 11yrs. Stock vs. stock, I'd have to say S14!

I loved my S14 from day-1. I wasn't "feeling" my FRS until I hit 5k miles. I'd like to give it a chance, however If Nissan wakes up and produces a worthy S16...

That's interesting. What did you like about the S14 more? A lot of people are waiting around to find out about that new light Z, myself included. There will be no new "silvia" unfortunately, but this might be the spiritual successor of the 240z and silvia in one new car. (light, about the same dimensions, turbo I4 or V6 option, I'm definitely paying attention).

I think this article is pretty much interesting about the 240z vs 240sx vs FRS/BRZ/86: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the...ears-408769384

Ignore the drift video at the top.

[ZDan]

I had an S13 and an S14. Loved the S13! My '95 S14 didn't feel as tight (rubbery steering) and its engine didn't rev as freely (fell flat way before 6500rpm redline, whereas the S13's pulled happily to 7000+). To tell the truth it was kind of a disappointment after the S13.

Anyway, for me the FR-S/BRZ is a HUGE step forward from either. It feels a lot tighter than even the S13, right out of the box. Better suspension, more rigid, more responsive steering (with perhaps a little less feel than the S13's, which was the best-feeling power assisted steering I've ever experienced).

But of course a brand new FR-S/BRZ is a LOT more expensive than a modded-to-your taste S14!

One route is a lot more expensive, with (hopefully!) a lot less headache and worry.
Other route is a lot cheaper, but will require some effort, and you'll still be driving an "old car" if that bothers you.

Regarding the diff: Torsen *is* a "real" LSD. I have a T2R in my 500+hp FD, NO problems putting the power down. The stock unit in my S2000 has never had a problem putting its ~235hp down, either. I love good clutch-type units too, had one in my 240Z, a lightly preloaded salisbury clutch type with ramps that tighten up with load. But again, Torsens are *real* LSDs.

[Jdogg88]

I used to have a 96 240 that had some mild suspension parts like coils, tie rods, arms package etc. and had a welded diff. I loved the go cart feel that the 240 brought whenever I drove it, being that it was so low and you felt everything. When I first test drove the frs, it reminded me of my 240, but it just felt so much better. The steering in the frs is tight and has a slight heavy feel when you throw it around a bend. The frs IMO is a little more predictable then my 240 ever was and I know the limits and have more confidence when behind the wheel. For daily driving purposes, the frs is the better car IMO. Expense wise, I sold my 240 cause I didn't wanna throw thousands of dollars on a car that might not be as reliable as the brand new frs. There's things I miss about the 240 but if I were to do it over again, I would still pick the frs. Sorry for the novel, just trying to help your decision.

[Wolfking]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

That's interesting. What did you like about the S14 more? A lot of people are waiting around to find out about that new light Z, myself included. There will be no new "silvia" unfortunately, but this might be the spiritual successor of the 240z and silvia in one new car. (light, about the same dimensions, turbo I4 or V6 option, I'm definitely paying attention).

Ok, if memory serves me correctly... I'm just putting this out as it comes to mind.

S14 perfect was in every way minus the power!
As I stated, I loved my S14 from day1. All of my friends rocked Gen5 Ludes...faster, but front wheel .

(1.) The S14 had styling to kill, as does the FRS.
(2.) S14 had storage space for an ironing board and an at least 6' folding ladder... Not sure the FRS can pull this one off!
(3.) S14 was roomier and had a moonroof! (cheesy, I know, but you asked!)
(4.) After lowering on Sprint II's, adding a front STB, Z32 TC rods and rolling on 225/17's, S14 spoke to me...feedback! ( I ate a Mustang GT, Camaro "something" and an RX8 for a quick snack in a turn...they started it, YOU KNOW I FINISHED IT!)

So in short, with my S14 accolades. I believe my FRS will serve me well, but S14 was also my 1st new car! I miss it to the day. ( sold, not totaled)


Even with the rumor of a "spiritual successor" (man I love that! I know you too, get it!) coming, I too am very excited!

[_hollywood]

End of the day the frs is a brand new car, so you are starting with a fresh new platform, the perfect daily driver ad weekend drift warrior....

However if you want to get serious nothing wrong with putting 20k into an s13-15 chassis and going all out....

In the end i would rather start with a fresh platform....and not deal with fixing other peoples project cars etc....

[jarviz]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I had a 98 S14 for like 4 years.

To put the FRS simply:

Drives down the road like an S14.
Drives on the track like an S13.

As somebody that's never driven an S13 or an S14, can someone please explain this haha

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by jarviz

As somebody that's never driven an S13 or an S14, can someone please explain this haha

Driving down the street on a normal commute, it seems bigger an spacious. By that, I don't mean BIG in overall size, but big in the sense that you don't feel constricted or cramped when you're sitting in it. It's comfortable to drive and has everything you actually need. Not that the 13 sucked on the road but overall, it didn't feel as nice to just cruise around on the street on a normal commute.

On the track, the car feels more nimble. More similar to an S13. Sharp steering and turn in and the quicker rotation reminds me a lot of how the 13 handles on the track. The 13 is pretty raw compared to the s14, which not many would think since they're so similar. But the smaller, lighter chassis and shorter wheelbase makes the 13 feel more agile IMO.

I always used to say that the 14 made the better DD and the 13 made the better track car. With the FRS/BRZ, it seems as if you get the best of both worlds.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I had an S13 and an S14. Loved the S13! My '95 S14 didn't feel as tight (rubbery steering) and its engine didn't rev as freely (fell flat way before 6500rpm redline, whereas the S13's pulled happily to 7000+). To tell the truth it was kind of a disappointment after the S13.

Anyway, for me the FR-S/BRZ is a HUGE step forward from either. It feels a lot tighter than even the S13, right out of the box. Better suspension, more rigid, more responsive steering (with perhaps a little less feel than the S13's, which was the best-feeling power assisted steering I've ever experienced).

But of course a brand new FR-S/BRZ is a LOT more expensive than a modded-to-your taste S14!

One route is a lot more expensive, with (hopefully!) a lot less headache and worry.
Other route is a lot cheaper, but will require some effort, and you'll still be driving an "old car" if that bothers you.

Regarding the diff: Torsen *is* a "real" LSD. I have a T2R in my 500+hp FD, NO problems putting the power down. The stock unit in my S2000 has never had a problem putting its ~235hp down, either. I love good clutch-type units too, had one in my 240Z, a lightly preloaded salisbury clutch type with ramps that tighten up with load. But again, Torsens are *real* LSDs.

I know the Torsen is mechanical, but for drifting and circuit racing a lot of people seem to prefer clutch type LSDs. The Torsen is probably better for daily driving though.

By the way, you have excellent taste in cars. I loved my friend's S2000, and I would kill to have a reliable FD RX7.

I've considered getting a used S2000 for a daily driver and keeping the S14 as a track toy instead of going the new car route. Honestly, the S2000 has the perfect amount of power for a street car of that size. Really wish the FRS matched it. Probably will in 2015.

Did you have an SR or KA in the S14? Any suspension mods? I hear that a lot about S13 and S14, although I feel like the S14 is smoother, especially at high speeds, and more neutral instead of leaning to the oversteer side like the S13. I was really surprised how much handling improved on my S14 with a nismo power brace and SPL tension rods on the front end. Really made turn-in a lot sharper. The spherical bearings feel nice.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

By the way, you have excellent taste in cars. I loved my friend's S2000, and I would kill to have a reliable FD RX7.

Mine has been *very* reliable, but the LS2 has been running a little hot lately, dunno what's up with that... Just ordered ohlins DFVs for it to fix the suspension. The Tein SSs that are on it now are horrendous

I've considered getting a used S2000 for a daily driver and keeping the S14 as a track toy instead of going the new car route. Honestly, the S2000 has the perfect amount of power for a street car of that size. Really wish the FRS matched it. Probably will in 2015.

I am looking forward to that! Hope it happens...

Did you have an SR or KA in the S14? Any suspension mods? I hear that a lot about S13 and S14, although I feel like the S14 is smoother, especially at high speeds, and more neutral instead of leaning to the oversteer side like the S13. I was really surprised how much handling improved on my S14 with a nismo power brace and SPL tension rods on the front end. Really made turn-in a lot sharper. The spherical bearings feel nice.

I had KA24DEs in both my '91 S13 and my '95 S14. Both 100% stock. There are apparently differences in the cams. All I know is that at the track, the S13's engine happily wound all the way to the limiter at an indicated ~7200rpm, whereas the S14's fell flat well short of its 6500rpm redline.

Overall the S13 was an absolute HOOT to drive at the track, very responsive and engaging. Loved to hang the tail out, very easy to recover. Whereas the S14 to me clearly did not want to be there. Not as responsive, not as lively, not as FUN.

I'm sure the sloppier handling feel of the s14 is easily addressed. If I'd kept mine I was going to go to more solid bushings all around and stiffer springs/struts/sways. Maybe the steering rack is on soft bushings, the steering definitely felt more vague.