Viability of complete FA24 swap (motor and ECU)?

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Teseo

If it was plug n play, FA2.4 could be an fair option but will be more headache than solution. Would rather use that money to enhance/strengthen the actual FA20 (or go big with forged block). Idk mate, that idea is like paying child support for a foster kid

I hear you, but if you're going to be putting money into the internals of an FA20, why *wouldn't* you go with an option with 20% more displacement? Particularly remembering that my preference here is to stay NA.

I can't see the logic of why a plug-and-play FA24 swap would be "more headache than solution" though...?

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

I hear you, but if you're going to be putting money into the internals of an FA20, why *wouldn't* you go with an option with 20% more displacement? Particularly remembering that my preference here is to stay NA.

I can't see the logic of why a plug-and-play FA24 swap would be "more headache than solution" though...?

If it was plug n play, logically is more cheaper. If I want to dump money and stay N/A, bet you money will go to K24 or LS swap. My guess EZ3 engine will be more cheap/reliable than that FA2.4 grenade it itself with silicone

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

I hear you, but if you're going to be putting money into the internals of an FA20, why *wouldn't* you go with an option with 20% more displacement? Particularly remembering that my preference here is to stay NA.

I can't see the logic of why a plug-and-play FA24 swap would be "more headache than solution" though...?

A Frankenstein engine will give you monstrous issues. There really is no avoiding it.

If I was interested in the swap I would work on getting the ECU compatibility (we don't even really know what that would be yet) resolved well before I ever even considered a head transplant.

I know that you did not want to discuss costs but it can't be ignored. At this point in time a 2.4 block is going to cost a small fortune. Waiting for them to come down in price may be just the right amount of time for the ECU considerations to be resolved.

All in all your questions may just be a bit ahead of the curve and the answers will come along eventually.

[alex87f]

At the end of the day, it always comes down to -> sell 86, add swap money, buy cayman / supra / whatever has the power level you're after.

Will also carry a far lower TCO once you factor resale.

Unless you have a very special attachment to the platform and must have extra power, and you're willing to plonk down serious money making your car worse in a lot of respects, swapping is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, swaps are awesome and I recommend spending time on engineswapdepot.com if you can, but they're a deeply emotional, irrational choice.

If I was stranded on an island with tools and time on my hands, and had an 86 and a spare 3.6 flat-6, I'd have a go at it.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by alex87f

At the end of the day, it always comes down to -> sell 86, add swap money, buy cayman / supra / whatever has the power level you're after.

Will also carry a far lower TCO once you factor resale.

Unless you have a very special attachment to the platform and must have extra power, and you're willing to plonk down serious money making your car worse in a lot of respects, swapping is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, swaps are awesome and I recommend spending time on engineswapdepot.com if you can, but they're a deeply emotional, irrational choice.

If I was stranded on an island with tools and time on my hands, and had an 86 and a spare 3.6 flat-6, I'd have a go at it.

I do kind of have a "special attachment" to the platform. I had been shopping them since they came out, and almost pulled the trigger several times, but the timing just wasn't right. When I saw what the 2nd gen looked like, I finally decided to pick up a 2020 because it was the last chance to buy the (in my opinion) much more attractive 1st gen new.

I love Caymans of pretty much any generation, except the 4-cylinder turbo 718. Yes, they feel a bit (in some cases a LOT) more "special" than the BRZ at any speed (because hey - it is a Porsche after all), and the flat-6 engine note is awesome, but having driven a 987.2 Cayman S on my local roads, the problem is that it's almost "too capable". To actually have fun and feel like you're pushing it, you've got to be going VERY fast. Too fast, in fact, for most public roads.

If I had the funds and garage space for a "track only" car, hands-down, a 6-cylinder Cayman of some sort would be my choice. The reality is, I don't.

Instead, I need one car that is daily-drivable, has back seats for occasionally running my kids around to stuff, fun enough at reasonably supra-legal speeds on the road, and can still be fun at the occasional track day.

FWIW, I prefer the "feel" of an NA car over turbo, so the only other car I had considered as an alternative over the years since the BRZ came out was a BMW 128i. Having driven a few 1-series cars, they just felt a bit too boxy and upright for what I was after and the interiors were kind of stark and nasty, but the 6-cylinder sound almost swayed me a few times...LOL.

As for the power level I'm after, it's really not that much more than stock, honestly, and primarily more low to mid-range torque. Peak HP numbers don't really mean much to me. The power blocks made a big difference for me in that regard, and it could very well be that after I get the ACE A350 headers on and the tune done, that could be enough.

Taking it further than that, again, I know it would be cheaper and easier to bolt on a carb-legal supercharger kit if more power was my goal, and that's not totally out of the question.

I guess part of it (the interest in the FA24 swap) would also be just to do something different, blending the best of both generations (for me).

Anyway - thanks again for your input!

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A Frankenstein engine will give you monstrous issues. There really is no avoiding it.

If I was interested in the swap I would work on getting the ECU compatibility (we don't even really know what that would be yet) resolved well before I ever even considered a head transplant.

I know that you did not want to discuss costs but it can't be ignored. At this point in time a 2.4 block is going to cost a small fortune. Waiting for them to come down in price may be just the right amount of time for the ECU considerations to be resolved.

All in all your questions may just be a bit ahead of the curve and the answers will come along eventually.

The full engine / harness / ECU swap would be far preferable to the alternatives, for sure. Who knows - it could really be just that simple (plug and play), but I'm not super optimistic that would be the case.

If I had any friends locally with a 2nd gen, we could pull the ECU's out and see if they're at least using the same plugs. If anyone has any input on that front, please feel free to chime in!

Yeah, I'm well aware that we're way ahead of where any option with an FA24 is close to reasonable in terms of cost, and a bit ahead of where the current knowledge base on compatibility is at. The good news is, by the time my available budget catches up to my aspirations, we'll hopefully be much further down both of those roads...LOL!

Thanks again for your input - I appreciate it.

[Lantanafrs2]

Sounds like too much work for the gains. I'm gonna wait a year or so and see what the prices on complete cars look like

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Sounds like too much work for the gains. I'm gonna wait a year or so and see what the prices on complete cars look like

This is ultimately the better plan.
although very similar none of the Subaru engines have shown any form of bolt in, plug and play abilities. This is why there are not a bunch of twins running around with EJ, EA or FA24F swaps even though all those engines have been around for a while.

Think my wife would be pissed if she came out to find the engine out of her new Ascent in my 86?

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Think my wife would be pissed if she came out to find the engine out of her new Ascent in my 86?

LOL - my wife probably wouldn't notice, as long as there was still a functioning engine in her vehicle.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

LOL - my wife probably wouldn't notice, as long as there was still a functioning engine in her vehicle.

Mine neither other than the fact if I put the Fa20 in there that tank of an Ascent would have a 0 to 60 of about 45 minutes!
Which come to think about it is probably as fast as she accelerates anyway so no loss.

[geraldjust]

The new fa24 ecu and system are completely different. The canbus messages are different from gen1 cars. On gen2 cars their is also two different networks that connect to the ecu. Not to mention that the biggest thing will be the immobilizer. The gen2 ecu wont run without it. Not to mention on the Gen2 the ecu and direct injector driver are all in one module attached to the engine, while gen1 the ecu is in the cabin and driver attached to the engine. so alot of wiring work will also have to be done. So that and canbus would make it too much work and research that it would make it financially in-practical. The better alternative is if you have a 17+ car, making a custom harness from the AC1 connector to the FA24 engine itself and getting a tuner who will be able to run the new engine on the gen1 ecu. Or just Strap a SC on a FA20.

I daily a turbo brz , got a chance to drive a MT 22, and a AT22 for some weeks. And what i would say that the best part of the new car is not necessarily the engine. Its the overall chassis as a whole. Better interior, modern feel and good suspension, and yes better power. But it has to be as a whole package.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

The new fa24 ecu and system are completely different. The canbus messages are different from gen1 cars. On gen2 cars their is also two different networks that connect to the ecu. Not to mention that the biggest thing will be the immobilizer. The gen2 ecu wont run without it. Not to mention on the Gen2 the ecu and direct injector driver are all in one module attached to the engine, while gen1 the ecu is in the cabin and driver attached to the engine. so alot of wiring work will also have to be done. So that and canbus would make it to much work and research that it would make it finically in-practical. The better alternative is if you have a 17+ car, making a custom harness from the AC1 connector to the FA24 engine itself and getting a tuner who will be able to run the new engine on the gen1 ecu. Or just Strap a SC on a FA20.

Thank you for that very detailed info! Sadly, it confirms that a complete engine/harness/ECU swap is not really viable, but that's not really surprising.

[Sevs753]

Originally Posted by geraldjust

The better alternative is if you have a 17+ car, making a custom harness from the AC1 connector to the FA24 engine itself and getting a tuner who will be able to run the new engine on the gen1 ecu.

I'm curious, why 17+? What's different with the 13-16 cars that would prevent that from being an option?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Thank you for that very detailed info! Sadly, it confirms that a complete engine/harness/ECU swap is not really viable, but that's not really surprising.

Ah, with a standalone all is possible. But it'll cost yah.