what the hell is lift-throttle oversteer? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

sledheadguy · 02-07-2015, 06:09 PM

been reading up on the reviews of my frs. what is lift-throttle oversteer?
I think it came from a car and driver review.

billwot · 02-07-2015, 06:15 PM

When you lift, there is a weight transfer from the rear wheels onto the front wheels. That means more traction on the front, and less traction on the rear.

So if you lift while cornering, there is an increased tendency for the rear end to slide out. Hence "lift-throttle oversteer."

sledheadguy · 02-07-2015, 06:20 PM

ok....so is this a positive or negative???
I would think its a negative.
Is it a big deal? what can fix it?

86_Freak · 02-07-2015, 06:23 PM

Depends on what you are trying to do. Sometimes it can help you get some rotation in a corner if needed, but usually it catches drivers out and makes them spin. You really have to be pushing the car to get it the lift-throttle oversteer, though, and the traction control has to be off.

billwot · 02-07-2015, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sledheadguy

ok....so is this a positive or negative???

Well, if you autoX or do track days, its definitely a positive. Swinging the rear end out is a quicker way to make a corner.

Toyota even equipped us skinny tires to make it easier to swing out the rear end.

Grim-Reaper · 02-07-2015, 06:26 PM

That is what got some Porsche 911 owners a bad day. Old 911s are sensible on throttle lifting.

billwot · 02-07-2015, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim-Reaper

That is what got some Porsche 911 owners a bad day. Old 911s are sensible on throttle lifting.

2nd gen MR2s are too!

Dake · 02-07-2015, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billwot

Well, if you autoX or do track days, its definitely a positive. Swinging the rear end out is a quicker way to make a corner.

Toyota even equipped us skinny tires to make it easier to swing out the rear end.

Yep, conversely, if you're right on the edge of grip and take your foot off the gas - around you'll go.

Teseo · 02-07-2015, 06:36 PM

S2000 also, you can "fix" it with griper tires, soft suspension in the rear
and sometimes less presure in the rear tires also aid

jdubious · 02-07-2015, 07:36 PM

Learn something everyday. This day was noteworthy.

NWFRS · 02-07-2015, 07:38 PM

These front-engine cars are relatively immune.

It's really only likely to 'catch you out' in a mid/rear or rear-engine car.

And only then if you're really pushing it through a corner, as was mentioned.

Most of the mid/rear engine cars have around a 42/58 weight bias. Pretty far from 50/50.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

MightyMeeple · 02-07-2015, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billwot

Well, if you autoX or do track days, its definitely a positive. Swinging the rear end out is a quicker way to make a corner.

Toyota even equipped us skinny tires to make it easier to swing out the rear end.

Wrong...wrong...wrong. Maybe fun, but not a benefit in most situations. If your tires are sliding and therefore not gripping, in most cases you are losing time.

Tcoat · 02-07-2015, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sledheadguy

ok....so is this a positive or negative???
I would think its a negative.
Is it a big deal? what can fix it?

Like said you can change it with suspension tweaks but you are not really "fixing" anything as it isn't broken.
Now having said that it also isn't a problem for your average day to day driving but more of an occurrence when pushing the car to it's limits Again like said the guys tracking actually want it to some extent. I will sometimes do it on purpose when entering an on/off ramp when I am feeling playful!

stevesnj · 02-07-2015, 08:01 PM

Yeh lifting the throttle in an oversteer situation can be bad for RWD cars on the track.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsbk3vBMMow"]Autobahn - South Course - Trailing Throttle Oversteer - YouTube[/ame]

02-07-2015, 06:09 PM	#1
sledheadguy Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Drives: 2014 FRS firestorm red (MT) Location: winnipeg, mb. Posts: 88 Thanks: 155 Thanked 32 Times in 20 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	what the hell is lift-throttle oversteer? been reading up on the reviews of my frs. what is lift-throttle oversteer? I think it came from a car and driver review.

02-07-2015, 07:38 PM	#11
NWFRS Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Drives: ‘13 FRS Location: USA Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 3,945 Thanked 1,502 Times in 634 Posts Mentioned: 17 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	These front-engine cars are relatively immune. It's really only likely to 'catch you out' in a mid/rear or rear-engine car. And only then if you're really pushing it through a corner, as was mentioned. Most of the mid/rear engine cars have around a 42/58 weight bias. Pretty far from 50/50. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer __________________ http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82872

02-07-2015, 08:01 PM	#14
stevesnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: 2016 FR-S Oceanic Blue Location: Southern NJ Posts: 2,958 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 1,601 Times in 923 Posts Mentioned: 30 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Yeh lifting the throttle in an oversteer situation can be bad for RWD cars on the track. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsbk3vBMMow"]Autobahn - South Course - Trailing Throttle Oversteer - YouTube[/ame] __________________ My 2016 Build thread TRD Exhaust with custom quad tips, TRD Lowering Springs,TRD Quick shifter,LED;DRL, Projectors, and turn signals. Re-badge, 86 Nanny, WinmaxW2 Pads, K&N Drop In, Antenna delete

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02-07-2015, 06:15 PM	#2
billwot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Drives: '11 Cayman , '14 Camry, '11 Tacoma Location: Eastern NC Posts: 509 Thanks: 57 Thanked 396 Times in 198 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	When you lift, there is a weight transfer from the rear wheels onto the front wheels. That means more traction on the front, and less traction on the rear. So if you lift while cornering, there is an increased tendency for the rear end to slide out. Hence "lift-throttle oversteer."

02-07-2015, 06:20 PM	#3
sledheadguy Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Drives: 2014 FRS firestorm red (MT) Location: winnipeg, mb. Posts: 88 Thanks: 155 Thanked 32 Times in 20 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	ok....so is this a positive or negative??? I would think its a negative. Is it a big deal? what can fix it?

02-07-2015, 06:23 PM	#4
86_Freak Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Drives: 2015 FR-S Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 44 Times in 25 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Depends on what you are trying to do. Sometimes it can help you get some rotation in a corner if needed, but usually it catches drivers out and makes them spin. You really have to be pushing the car to get it the lift-throttle oversteer, though, and the traction control has to be off.

02-07-2015, 06:26 PM	#6
Grim-Reaper Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Drives: GT86 '13 AT, Supra 3.0i Turbo' 91 Location: Germany Posts: 39 Thanks: 48 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	That is what got some Porsche 911 owners a bad day. Old 911s are sensible on throttle lifting.

02-07-2015, 06:36 PM	#9
Teseo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Drives: frs Location: Gunsai Posts: 4,877 Thanks: 7,152 Thanked 2,922 Times in 1,769 Posts Mentioned: 23 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	S2000 also, you can "fix" it with griper tires, soft suspension in the rear and sometimes less presure in the rear tires also aid

02-07-2015, 07:36 PM	#10
jdubious Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: 13 Scion FR-S Location: Texas Posts: 89 Thanks: 44 Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Learn something everyday. This day was noteworthy.

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