Should I trade in my 370z?

[Z.Tune]

Test drive is later this afternoon, lol

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

That is not fuel starve. That is the trip computer not knowing how much is left to go.

Fuel starve means that you're low on fuel and driving hard (I mean TRACKING IT hard) and you take a sweeping right turn with low fuel, and the G forces pull the fuel away from where it is grabbed from the tank, shutting the car down. That is fuel starve. Not knowing how many miles you can go before running out of gas, that's nothing. As a rule of thumb, I always assume I have less than thirty miles to go in any car with the fuel light on. Just fuel up when your gas light comes on and it's not a problem.

As for fuel starve, most Z owners will never drive their cars hard enough to ever experience it.

Mine cost 400 and we installed it in an afternoon. Fixes the oil heat issues permanently. Brake heat issues can be addressed with higher tolerance brake fluid (60 bux), better pads (300 bux), and if you're really feeling frisky, the Stillen brake cooling kit, but that's not necessary.





At the end of the day, trade the Z if you want to. We only go around once in life. Test drive the FRS/BRZ, and if you like it more, then trade it. What's good for me is not necessarily good for you.

repped! fuel starve sucks if you actually hit it...

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Well, I haven't hit the track with the Z yet. That's happening in October. But on the Tail of the Dragon, she handles like a wet dream, to me.


I'm hoping they bring back the S, have that as a 4-cyl entry to compete with FRS/BRZ/MX5. RWD. Hoping they increase the power of the Z a bit, maybe with forced induction. Although, really, if you can't have fun with 330hp, you're doing something wrong And keep the GTR as the halo car. I see no need to bring back the 510 name. They don't need to enter the hot hatch market, but if they did, it'd be sweet.


Sorry, I'll take off my Nissan fanboi cap for a while now

Makes me regret selling my S13 to help pay for my house. I had a Versa at that point and barely drove the 240 at all. I couldn't justify keeping it around anymore.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I'm hoping they bring back the S, have that as a 4-cyl entry to compete with FRS/BRZ/MX5. RWD. Hoping they increase the power of the Z a bit, maybe with forced induction. Although, really, if you can't have fun with 330hp, you're doing something wrong

Z doesn't need more power so much as it needs to lose ~500 lb.!

And keep the GTR as the halo car.

Honestly, I'd rather they had done a new Silvia than the GTR.

I see no need to bring back the 510 name. They don't need to enter the hot hatch market, but if they did, it'd be sweet.

I don't know why any Nissan enthusiast wouldn't want to see a new small, lightweight *RWD* sedan/hot-hatch platform out there. Currently there are ZERO on the market.

They don't NEED a Z, or a GTR, or a Silvia any more than they need a new rwd 510 lineup. For myself, I see a MUCH greater need for a new small/lightweight/economical rwd sedan/hatch than I do for a 3300 lb. Z or 3800 lb. GT-R...

Actually, doing a 510 lineup and basing a new lighter-weight Z on that might make more sense than going head-to-head against the FR-S/BRZ. As Toyobaru has discovered, if you go into a market segment that's been overlooked for literally over a decade, you find a lot of pent-up demand and easy sales.

[shadoquad]

ZDan, we have differing opinions. I respect yours, but disagree.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Z doesn't need more power so much as it needs to lose ~500 lb.!

Difference of opinion. I'd rather them increase the power so it can run with Mustang GT's.

Honestly, I'd rather they had done a new Silvia than the GTR.

The GTR was a technological marvel when it was released in 2009. It is their halo car. It gets people into dealerships, similar to a ZR1 or a 911 Turbo. More people come to look at them and buy some boring Altima than people who actually buy them. And that's the point of a halo car. I think the GTR was a definite right move for Nissan. A four-seat, two ton AWD behemoth that could lap the Nurburgring in the same time as a 911. How sick is that?

I don't know why any Nissan enthusiast wouldn't want to see a new small, lightweight *RWD* sedan/hot-hatch platform out there. Currently there are ZERO on the market.

I didn't say I wouldn't like it. I just don't see it as a smart move. Part of the reality of the hatch market is that people are buying them for versatility, including a drivetrain perceived as being more safe in inclement weather, which necessitates FWD or AWD. Possibly, there are other reasons behind this, but that's how I understand it. Enter a RWD hatch into it, and it might be easily passed over for FWD/AWD counterparts.

They don't NEED a Z, or a GTR, or a Silvia any more than they need a new rwd 510 lineup. For myself, I see a MUCH greater need for a new small/lightweight/economical rwd sedan/hatch than I do for a 3300 lb. Z or 3800 lb. GT-R...

ok... opinion noted.

Actually, doing a 510 lineup and basing a new lighter-weight Z on that might make more sense than going head-to-head against the FR-S/BRZ. As Toyobaru has discovered, if you go into a market segment that's been overlooked for literally over a decade, you find a lot of pent-up demand and easy sales.

Sometimes vacant markets were vacated for a reason. I don't know what the demand is for a RWD hatch. You might be right, there might be a silent majority clamoring for them. But it would be quite a risky move. Toyobaru's move was less risky. The Miata was already there and thriving in that market.

[Z.Tune]

FINAL DECISION:

After test drive the FRS, here's what I felt:

Pros:
1.The handling of the FRS is super! Seriously feel like a smaller BMW, or a S2K with a softer spring. I dun feel its like the Miata, Miata is very soft. It turns so easy, so effortless, and that feel is just magic. VERY GOOD JOB.
2. The clutch and shifting feel is smooth and sweet, steering is mind connecting. I will say my mom can drive it fast. Compare to the 370Z's steel hard clutch and shifting feel, the FRS is like dancing on the water, if u know what i mean.
3. This seat melts my butt! Omg! feels so dang good, the driving position is so so sweet. Good eye sight, nice placement of the handbreak, and its a short shifter. But I felt the stick a little too long, I will love it if its shorter.
4. I love the light weight! But it felt heavier than what it should weight. I think because of the suspension and wheel set up.

Drive this thing through the twisting road just so much fun, I can do it all day long. But I wish I can pull the handbreak, or push the engine harder, but its a new car, can't do that. But still, what a muther fukin awesome handling car!!

Cons:
1. Lack of power, especially I mean the torque. 200hp should be enough for me, this thing can go so fast in fact. But the torque, it just dun pick up. I mean, no matter I was on a straight pull, or exiting corners, going up and down, I can feel the lag. Not something like a turbo lag, but it kills the feeling somehow, because all that handling is so good, but suddenly I just can't get things going because of the power, no, I mean the torque! If this thing has a little bit more power, it will immediately become a killer, I mean it!

In fact, this seemed the only down side of this car for me. I dun care about what ppl say about the cheap interior, how small is the back seat, or whatever. All I care about is the performance. The interior doesn't look cheap to me, that fake carbon fiber doesn't annoy me at all. And I have to say, the interior is very good, in this price.


Summary:
A very very very good sports car! In this price, it beats any new car now, IMO. This handling is so dang good, and there is still a lot space to improve. Look at that engine bay, it can fit my husky in there. But sadly, I might say the S2K is still better, but so so close. As a daily driver, the FRS wins.

Get back the compare to the 370z. The FRS's seat, clutch and shifter kicks the 370z's butt. I mean if anyone ever get a chance, go try a 370z then a FRS. U might break the FRS's clutch and shifter by used to the 370z's, because it just so soft and smooth. U can't adjust the length for the steering wheel's neck in a 370, only up and down. But other than that, nothing beats the 370. Yes, the FRS does handles great, but not yet to compare to the 370. IMO, the FRS is more friendly to most of the drivers, but if u know what u r doing, the 370z surely handles as good as the FRS, and even better. In other words, its easier to drive a FRS than a 370z.

I can imagine, if the FRS has the same power as the 370, I think ppl will begin to complaint about the car is hard to control, lol.

Long words short, so far, the FRS needs to be better to beat the 370, IMO. I KEEP MY Z, period.

THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT SHARE THEIR OPINIONS WITH ME, YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!

Here r some pics:

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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Difference of opinion. I'd rather them increase the power so it can run with Mustang GT's.

A 330hp 2800 lb. Z would have superior power/weight over a Mustang GT, and would be quicker.

The GTR was a technological marvel when it was released in 2009. It is their halo car. It gets people into dealerships, similar to a ZR1 or a 911 Turbo. More people come to look at them and buy some boring Altima than people who actually buy them. And that's the point of a halo car.

I don't believe in "halo cars". I seriously doubt GM is selling more Cruzes, Volts, etc. due to the ZR-1, or that Nissan is selling more Altimas due to the GT-R.

I think the GTR was a definite right move for Nissan. A four-seat, two ton AWD behemoth that could lap the Nurburgring in the same time as a 911. How sick is that?

Pointless as far as I'm concerned. Ego-booster for the rich, primarily.

I didn't say I wouldn't like it. I just don't see it as a smart move. Part of the reality of the hatch market is that people are buying them for versatility, including a drivetrain perceived as being more safe in inclement weather, which necessitates FWD or AWD.

That market is already met. This would be for a different market, those who want utility/versatility and a very fun rwd driving experience.

Subaru for years didn't understand that there were PLENTY of customers for the WRX in the U.S. A similar sedan/hatch but rwd instead of awd would be cheaper and have greater appeal to a lot of enthusiasts (like me).

Sometimes vacant markets were vacated for a reason.

And sometimes the reasons are dumb. The small, lightweight, rwd coupe/hatch was abandoned because Nissan wasn't selling many 240SX's, because they insisted on not giving us the SR20DET version to keep from cannibalizing 300ZX sales. So BOTH the Z and the SX left the market. Doh...

I don't know what the demand is for a RWD hatch. You might be right, there might be a silent majority clamoring for them. But it would be quite a risky move.

It certainly wouldn't be a *majority*.

Toyobaru's move was less risky. The Miata was already there and thriving in that market.

The FRS is not a Miata, it's a modern 240SX. People are going to be cross-shipping against Gen Coupes and (groan) V6 Mustangs more so than MIatas.

Speaking of the Miata, that's another instance of a market segment (small, lightweight, economical rwd 2-seat roadster) that had been abandoned, though demand was there. There hasn't been a small, lightweight, economical rwd sedan or sedan-based hatch on the US market for decades. You wouldn't sell as many as Mazda sells Mazda3s, but I bet you'd sell as many as Subaru sells Imprezas. RWD should be cheaper to build than awd.

Risk? Yes, but by sharing the platform with a new smaller/lighter Z *and* a new Silvia, risk is heavily mitigated.

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by ZDan

A 330hp 2800 lb. Z would have superior power/weight over a Mustang GT, and would be quicker.

again, agree to disagree.

I don't believe in "halo cars". I seriously doubt GM is selling more Cruzes, Volts, etc. due to the ZR-1, or that Nissan is selling more Altimas due to the GT-R.

Pointless as far as I'm concerned. Ego-booster for the rich, primarily.

Are you new to the car industry? GM took massive losses on corvettes for years, because people stare at them and then test drive the SUV they're in teh market for. Halo cars move vehicles. Whether you like it or not, Nissan makes most of its sales on Altimas, Chevy sells mostly Cruzes, Hyndai sells mostly Elantras, etc, etc. Halo cars get people into the dealership. Z's don't sell well right now, but they keep churning them out because of the name. Mazda took massive losses on RX-8 for several years just to say they had a rotary in the lineup. The GTR was on the tip of everyone's tongue in 2009. That got people into dealerships.

That market is already met. This would be for a different market, those who want utility/versatility and a very fun rwd driving experience.

Subaru for years didn't understand that there were PLENTY of customers for the WRX in the U.S. A similar sedan/hatch but rwd instead of awd would be cheaper and have greater appeal to a lot of enthusiasts (like me).

Again, perhaps you're right, perhaps you're dead wrong. You and I don't get to make decisions for NNA. But I see it as a huge risk.

And sometimes the reasons are dumb. The small, lightweight, rwd coupe/hatch was abandoned because Nissan wasn't selling many 240SX's, because they insisted on not giving us the SR20DET version to keep from cannibalizing 300ZX sales. So BOTH the Z and the SX left the market. Doh...

And sometimes the reasons are perfectly legit. The supra, rx-7, 300zx, 3000gt, etc, died because of Japan's horsepower limitation and the sky high cost in the early to mid 90's. They cluttered lots.

It certainly wouldn't be a *majority*.

It has to be enough of a market for them to make back enough money to warrant the move. Nissan is in business to make money.

The FRS is not a Miata, it's a modern 240SX. People are going to be cross-shipping against Gen Coupes and (groan) V6 Mustangs more so than MIatas.

The FRS competes directly with the Miata. 25k RWD light sports car. The only tradeoff is drop top vs rear seats. You're fooling yourself if you think people are not cross-shopping MX5 with BRZ.

Speaking of the Miata, that's another instance of a market segment (small, lightweight, economical rwd 2-seat roadster) that had been abandoned, though demand was there. There hasn't been a small, lightweight, economical rwd sedan or sedan-based hatch on the US market for decades. You wouldn't sell as many as Mazda sells Mazda3s, but I bet you'd sell as many as Subaru sells Imprezas. RWD should be cheaper to build than awd.
Risk? Yes, but by sharing the platform with a new smaller/lighter Z *and* a new Silvia, risk is heavily mitigated.

There are good risks, and there are bad ones. Just because you want a RWD hatch, that doesn't mean it would make a profit. Again, maybe you're right, maybe I am. We'll have to simply disagree. And you can write to NNA with your opinions. Maybe they'll make your 510 after all.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

again, agree to disagree.

B.S. Acceleration is about power TO WEIGHT. A 330hp 2800 lb. Z absolutely would out-accelerate a 412hp 3600 lb. Mustang GT in the 1/4-mile and beyond (up to some very high speed). If you disagree, you're just wrong.

GM took massive losses on corvettes for years, because people stare at them and then test drive the SUV they're in teh market for. Halo cars move vehicles.

I don't think so. Toyota became the largest automaker in the world up until the tsunami, with ZERO halo vehicles on its lots. Certainly GM doesnt' make Corvettes now to lose money, if they ever did.

Whether you like it or not, Nissan makes most of its sales on Altimas, Chevy sells mostly Cruzes, Hyndai sells mostly Elantras, etc, etc. Halo cars get people into the dealership.

This point is almost always overstated.

Z's don't sell well right now, but they keep churning them out because of the name. Mazda took massive losses on RX-8 for several years just to say they had a rotary in the lineup.

Which didn't sell any more 3s...

The GTR was on the tip of everyone's tongue in 2009. That got people into dealerships.
Again, perhaps you're right, perhaps you're dead wrong.

I'm right, alright...

And sometimes the reasons are perfectly legit. The supra, rx-7, 300zx, 3000gt, etc, died because of Japan's horsepower limitation and the sky high cost in the early to mid 90's. They cluttered lots.

They made them too overwrought and overpriced. The RX-7 was simply too unreliable and fuel-thirsty.

The FRS competes directly with the Miata. 25k RWD light sports car.

No, you have a 2-seat roadster and a more utilitarian 2+2 coupe.

The only tradeoff is drop top vs rear seats. You're fooling yourself if you think people are not cross-shopping MX5 with BRZ.

Of course there will be cross-shopping, but they're still different types of vehicle. Like I said, it will be MORE so cross-shopped against other 2+2 coupes. Never said it wouldn't be cross shopped vs. Miata, but generally people know if they really want a 2-seat ragtop vs. 2+2 coupe.

The FRS will appeal to more people because it's a more utilitarian vehicle.

WRX proved that hot utilitarian vehicles do indeed have a market. I certainly don't have full knowledge of the market (neither does anyone else), but IMO small/lightweight rwd cars have huge appeal to a decent-sized community of enthusiasts.

In any case, it would be very cool to see someone give it a shot.

And again, you'd share the risk over three or more different vehicles:
New smaller/lighter Z
New Silvia
New 510 2-, 3-, 4-, 5-doors (some combination thereof).

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by ZDan

B.S. Acceleration is about power TO WEIGHT. A 330hp 2800 lb. Z absolutely would out-accelerate a 412hp 3600 lb. Mustang GT in the 1/4-mile and beyond (up to some very high speed). If you disagree, you're just wrong.

I don't think so. Toyota became the largest automaker in the world up until the tsunami, with ZERO halo vehicles on its lots. Certainly GM doesnt' make Corvettes now to lose money, if they ever did.

This point is almost always overstated.

Which didn't sell any more 3s...


I'm right, alright...

They made them too overwrought and overpriced. The RX-7 was simply too unreliable and fuel-thirsty.

No, you have a 2-seat roadster and a more utilitarian 2+2 coupe.

Of course there will be cross-shopping, but they're still different types of vehicle. Like I said, it will be MORE so cross-shopped against other 2+2 coupes. Never said it wouldn't be cross shopped vs. Miata, but generally people know if they really want a 2-seat ragtop vs. 2+2 coupe.

The FRS will appeal to more people because it's a more utilitarian vehicle.

WRX proved that hot utilitarian vehicles do indeed have a market. I certainly don't have full knowledge of the market (neither does anyone else), but IMO small/lightweight rwd cars have huge appeal to a decent-sized community of enthusiasts.

In any case, it would be very cool to see someone give it a shot.

And again, you'd share the risk over three or more different vehicles:
New smaller/lighter Z
New Silvia
New 510 2-, 3-, 4-, 5-doors (some combination thereof).

ZDan, I'm done arguing with you. You have no idea what you are talking about. You live in a separate reality or are a massive troll. Either way, you're not worth my time. Some of what you're saying is true, but some of it is utter bunk. Either way, I can see now that you will not cede a single point and are too stubborn to be reasoned with.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

ZDan, I'm done arguing with you. You have no idea what you are talking about. You live in a separate reality or are a massive troll. Either way, you're not worth my time. Some of what you're saying is true, but some of it is utter bunk. Either way, I can see now that you will not cede a single point and are too stubborn to be reasoned with.

Try making valid points.

How are you coming along with the concept of power to weight?

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Try making valid points.

How are you coming along with the concept of power to weight?

I wasn't arguing against the concept of power/weight ratio. I was saying that I would RATHER they address it with power than weight savings.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I wasn't arguing against the concept of power/weight ratio. I was saying that I would RATHER they address it with power than weight savings.

I said that a 330hp 2800 lb. Z would out-accelerate a 412hp 3600 lb. Mustang GT, and you said you DISAGREED.

But anyway, *why* would you rather see power/weight addressed only on the POWER side of the equation?
For most tracks (Nurburgring and other particularly high-speed tracks which you will most likely never go to excepted), power makes you faster in a straight line, whereas lighter-weight makes you faster everywhere...

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I said that a 330hp 2800 lb. Z would out-accelerate a 412hp 3600 lb. Mustang GT, and you said you DISAGREED.

But anyway, *why* would you rather see power/weight addressed only on the POWER side of the equation?
For most tracks (Nurburgring and other particularly high-speed tracks which you will most likely never go to excepted), power makes you faster in a straight line, whereas lighter-weight makes you faster everywhere...

Being that I own the car, have actually driven it hard, I feel fine with its handling at this girth and would simply enjoy more grunt, more torque, more acceleration. The car has magnificent grip. Sure, it's not as connected as an S2k/Miata/FRS, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to corner in.

Also, since you're fond of nitpicking semantics, I was trying to close our Power/Weight argument rather than prolong it, which you've enjoyed doing. I disagreed that they should solve the issue with weight savings.