2017 fa20 engine into 2013 car?

[ROADRACER]

Has anyone done this? When my 2013 track car engine lets go it could be a good time to put in a donor 2017 engine if it is a direct bolt in replacement? The 2017 ecu/tune is supposed to be quite different, but it would be a good option if the 2013-16 systems would work fine with the newest version of the fa20.

[strat61caster]

There's a difference between the '13-'14 engines and the '15-'16 engines, I've thought about this myself and I'd stick to a '13-'14 engine (at least while I consider participating in competitive events where the engine swap would be frowned upon).

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=642

The '15-'16 engines might be plug and play but I recall reading someone claim they weren't, I'd figure this is doubly true for the '17+, it would be awesome if it was (including an ECU reflash of course), there's some very smart knowledgeable guys hanging around here that might be able to say with confidence.

[Teseo]

I wonder if ECU and harness of 13' is plug n play with 17 engine too

[nikitopo]

I asked once and Subaru is not giving details. However, you can imagine that the A/T model uses the exact same engine as the previous model. So, there should not be so many changes.

[Vracer111]

Wondering drop in compatability as well, but my plan is to get a used motor and hand build it to spin up faster and have an 8krpm top end. Enhanced valve train compenents, Carillo H-rods, ARP hardware, good gaskets, and sealed up really well with RTV/bonding material to prevent valve cover leaks. Block and heads is what really matters to me anyways...intake can stay the same. A newer engine would be better, but don't think much has changed with the block and heads that would really effect anything...swap over sensors and intake to newer block/head and should be no issues. Did a ZC swap on a CRX Si years back that was pretty straight forward...not bad at all going to the DOHC motor from the stock SOHC one, very minimal wiring changes...

[Urmyson]

I put a 2016 motor into my 2013. There was a few connectors I had to take off the new motor and put my old ones on. Just extra steps but it works.

[Speedinbai]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Wondering drop in compatability as well, but my plan is to get a used motor and hand build it to spin up faster and have an 8krpm top end. Enhanced valve train compenents, Carillo H-rods, ARP hardware, good gaskets, and sealed up really well with RTV/bonding material to prevent valve cover leaks. Block and heads is what really matters to me anyways...intake can stay the same. A newer engine would be better, but don't think much has changed with the block and heads that would really effect anything...swap over sensors and intake to newer block/head and should be no issues. Did a ZC swap on a CRX Si years back that was pretty straight forward...not bad at all going to the DOHC motor from the stock SOHC one, very minimal wiring changes...

I think this is definitely the right plan of attack. The only differences are treatment to the cams and internals and a little more stiffness in the block of a 2017 by doing this 90% of the new stuff in a 2017 would be replaced anyway and you would get more power

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[gtengr]

Based on the Subaru technical document there are plenty of obstacles:

Changed fuel pressure sensor, changed specs of cam angle sensor plate, changed specs of crank angle sensor, changed shape of crank angle sensor plate, changed engine harness, changed alternator, etc.

One can probably work around some of those things, but I think the crank and cam angle sensor stuff might be a show-stopper if the old style can't be fitted.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by gtengr

One can probably work around some of those things, but I think the crank and cam angle sensor stuff might be a show-stopper if the old style can't be fitted.

How is this related? These are internals. He should swap the complete engine.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

How is this related? These are internals. He should swap the complete engine.

It may well be a show stopper if he is using the old ECU and/or old engine loom. I know from personal experience the engine loom from an early 2012/2013 motor is different to the later 2015/2016 motor and as we know the 2017 motor is quite different again.

[mrg666]

There are differences but I think fixing several issues with the swap should be possible. Actually, I bet it is a piece of cake compared to LS and 2JZ swaps shown in this forum.

But, frankly, I am not really excited about the new engine which is only rated at 5hp more. The older engines are good enough for getting >400hp with supporting mods and ~300hp without mods (300-400 is the gray area with risks). I am sure the '17 engine will need rebuilding for the power level of >400hp as well. There is no data yet that demonstrates '17 engine will yield more power and/or reliability with the same FI kit without supporting mods.

[Darkrune]

Originally Posted by mrg666

There are differences but I think fixing several issues with the swap should be possible. Actually, I bet it is a piece of cake compared to LS and 2JZ swaps shown in this forum.

But, frankly, I am not really excited about the new engine which is only rated at 5hp more. The older engines are good enough for getting >400hp with supporting mods and ~300hp without mods (300-400 is the gray area with risks). I am sure the '17 engine will need rebuilding for the power level of >400hp as well. There is no data yet that demonstrates '17 engine will yield more power and/or reliability with the same FI kit without supporting mods.

Your argument is a straw man. There is no evidence that doesn't support it either. There is no third party evidence that the engine needed tweaks either, but the Subaru engineers must have recognized some reason to make those changes.

[churchx]

Imho that gain is due changes on intake/exhaust & tune, not so much for engine itself. After all, the very same MY2017 engine but some domestic markets with stricter requirements for eco stuff lack those new manifold & header & 5hp gain despite engine internals being same/newer/updated.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Darkrune

Your argument is a straw man. There is no evidence that doesn't support it either. There is no third party evidence that the engine needed tweaks either, but the Subaru engineers must have recognized some reason to make those changes.

Of course, the new engine is improved. But what are you going to get with the improved engine, +5hp? 400hp FI without any supporting mods? header+tune with more power? What is that you are talking about? Is it worth an engine swap? Justify the swap with data and win your argument.