Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 vs Max Performance Summer

[igorotak]

drive it some more and tell us about the lack of "slot" feel! i have read new tires will feel squishy and floaty until it is broken in(not sure of the right terminology). i am thinking of getting either as3+ or dws06 or 0+ in the future when my primacy wear off and just like you, i love the slot feel over comfort.

[LotsaMiles]

Originally Posted by igorotak

drive it some more and tell us about the lack of "slot" feel! i have read new tires will feel squishy and floaty until it is broken in(not sure of the right terminology). i am thinking of getting either as3+ or dws06 or 0+ in the future when my primacy wear off and just like you, i love the slot feel over comfort.

Drove the car home Friday and did the 77 mile commute this morning. I drive a very twisty back road route for about 45 miles before I get to I-65 to complete my route.


I had another disappointment - it not only feels sloppy, but it doesn't stick as well. The ambient temperature was 71 degrees and on several corners my tracking control kicked in where it NEVER kicked in with the PSS's. Not even a little. Then, when I got on I-65. I did the quick back and forth on the steering wheel and the car just sort of sloshed around like a boat. Or Buick. Completely out of synch with the steering wheel input.


What is kinda funny is that I had a very busy weekend and hopped in the car, forgetting it had new tires on it. The tracking coming on scared the crap out of me because I thought something was wrong. And then I remembered, oh yeah, I have crappy tires now.


I was so busy this weekend that I forgot to check the pressure. Maybe I'll jack 'em up to 50 psi and see what happens. Can't hurt mileage.


Like you, I could not care less about comfort and noise.

[LotsaMiles]

Originally Posted by why?

try pumping up the air pressure, that should help some. The max cold pressure should be printed on the side of the tire, try that first.

Forgot to do that this weekend. I'll give 'em the max pressure. It was 50 on the PSS's (I never added air to them, though).


I track my mileage extremely anally. It's sort of an ongoing hobby. I noticed my gas mileage with 130 miles is 2mpg lower than before. It may be that they didn't put enough air in them. I'll crank them up to the max when I get home. Then we'll see.

[jmark]

Correct tire pressure isn't what is on the side wall of the tire it is what is on the door jamb The Pirelli P Zero AS + have stiffer side walls than the OEM Michelin HP for sure. Not fair to compare an ultra performance AS tire to a summer only ultra perfomance tire. Two different objectives.

[why?]

Originally Posted by jmark

Correct tire pressure isn't what is on the side wall of the tire it is what is on the door jamb The Pirelli P Zero AS + have stiffer side walls than the OEM Michelin HP for sure. Not fair to compare an ultra performance AS tire to a summer only ultra perfomance tire. Two different objectives.

that's just moronic to actually believe. Don't be that guy. Correct air temp is what the driver thinks it should be.

What is on the door jamb is just a number someone made up so the car could pass all the emissions and all their other comfort goals. It is meaningless outside of a lab.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by why?

that's just moronic to actually believe. Don't be that guy. Correct air temp is what the driver thinks it should be.

What is on the door jamb is just a number someone made up so the car could pass all the emissions and all their other comfort goals. It is meaningless outside of a lab.

There are people who don't realize the tire pressure on the tire sidewall is the max the tire can take not the pressure to go by. Are you one of those people?

[OND]

Originally Posted by why?

Correct air temp is what the driver thinks it should be.

No, especially if the driver thinks 50psi is a good starting point...

[ToySub1946]

>__Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ (91W Speed Rated)__<

I'm 70 yo, soon to be 71...My 2015 Scion FRS is just under 3 years old, bought new, now 51,250 miles on the odometer...

I just replaced my original Primacy HP tires (at 48,000 miles) with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires in size 215/45ZR17 (same size as original equipment on my car). Tires ordered from TireRack were listed as W or Y rated. Tires received are labeled 91W. This is supposed to be for speeds up to 168 mph, yet the tires have a one ply sidewall...seems somewhat odd.

With no help from others I picked these tires off the TireRack website. I live where it rains off and on up to 7 months of the year. Because of the weather here I thought summer tires would not be a good choice. So I looked in the categories of all season tires, and sticking with the Michelin brand.

I had the tires installed in North Carolina and immediately drove the car here to northern calif. So these new tires have now about 3000 miles on them within just a few days.

The TireRack website compared this model tire to two other brands and stated this brand/model to be the hardest riding of the three. My impression of them is that they are possibly, actually, softer riding than the original equipment Primacy HP tires on my car.

>>My initial impression of these tires still remains...after 3000 miles...the sidewalls are just too soft...too flexible. I have lost about 1/4 of the steering feel which I used to have with the Primacy HP tires.<<

I did hit a frightening rain/hail storm east of Oklahoma City on the way here. Rain so hard I was often unable to see clearly even at speeds of 10mph. Well, the steering of the car became harder to steer in that heavy rain...I assume that means these Pilot Sport tires do grip the road very well in heavy rain.

I have not yet driven my car on winding back roads. I do hope the steering feel and grip of these tires, in dry conditions on such roads, will be likable.

I cannot definitely comment on the braking capabilities of these tires, yet with seemingly softer rubber than the original equipment tires, I'd expect them to brake better than the Primacy HP tires, especially in rain. Just pushing on the tread and sidewalls of these tires with one's fingers, one can easily tell they are made of softer rubber than original equipment. Also the 3+ designation is a newer compound than the former 3 designation...supposedly changed as customers complained of poor light snow performance with the Pilot Sport 3 tires.

Overall I am quite unhappy with this model tire so far. They are somewhat cheaper than the original equipment tires on this car, possibly grip better, but some of the driving fun is missing.

I'd say this model tire would do well on a high end luxury sedan, NOT a tire designed for a sports car or sporty car.

Bottom line, for now, I am stuck with these fucking pieces of shit...LOL.

Maybe I'll buy another Toy/Sub car with OE tires for dry day driving...OR do a little better research before buying tires next time.

They say...better safe than sorry...I expect this model tire will be safer in our winter rain than the stock tires on this model car...but the fun is gone.

Edit 9-25-17: Forgot to state this fun thing using these PS A/S 3+ tires...On my 3000 mile, mostly freeway drive recently...Since the sidewalls of these tires are highly flexible, I began to often steer left right, left right, up to ten times...swishing the tail of my car at speeds of 70-85 mph. Nice way to say thank you to truck drivers or totally scare suv drivers behind me. Hello, I'm now driving a Buick and can wag my tail.

Edit 10-9-2017:
Thankfully TireRack gave me a refund for those PS A/S 3+ tires.
I replaced them with OEM tires...yet one size larger. Michelin Primacy HP...size 225/45/17.
My steering feel is back in my hands now !
Primacy HP tires may not be as sticky, or as good in rain as the Pilot Sports, maybe also a harder ride, yet their sidewalls seem stiffer.

[Somerandom18]

Originally Posted by OND

No, especially if the driver thinks 50psi is a good starting point...

I watched someone fill their tire up to the max pressure at a air pump at a gas station. My ears rang for the next 8 hours. He was quite angry I must say. Hahaha

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[why?]

Originally Posted by OND

No, especially if the driver thinks 50psi is a good starting point...

Yes, always. There is a reason air pressure is one of the primary things autocross people change when looking for certain handling characteristics.

[churchx]

why?: imho not always that reason is for pressure to be the best way to change those characteristics though. Rather availability of that to anyone / simplicity / ease & speed of adjustment. In long term i'd prefer dial wished handling by other means, like suspension parts choice/alignment settings, without for example compromising evenness of tire wear or maximum grip tire can provide, but so, right on track, right after going in pitstop, without lifting car, without extra tooling, - ease & speed & cheapness of adjustment.

[why?]

Originally Posted by churchx

why?: imho not always that reason is for pressure to be the best way to change those characteristics though. Rather availability of that to anyone / simplicity / ease & speed of adjustment. In long term i'd prefer dial wished handling by other means, like suspension parts choice/alignment settings, without for example compromising evenness of tire wear or maximum grip tire can provide, but so, right on track, right after going in pitstop, without lifting car, without extra tooling, - ease & speed & cheapness of adjustment.

exactly. Of course we wish we could have it all auto adjust with a menu on a computer or our phone. But that isn't worth it weight wise, so we make do. Hell even Nascar uses tire pressures to adjust handling and they could afford to do most anything they chose.

Point being, air pressure is not something you just let someone else set for you and pretend that is just fine.

[ApexEight]

What the hell has this thread turned into?

I think the points are:

1) An all-season, even a UHP, is not going to compare to a Max Performancr summer tire in terms of sportiness, most of the time. People like to compare some of the new UHPs to them, but I think most would find that there is a large gap in terms of performance between the two, and they aren't substitutes.

2) Tire pressures are important in setting up how the car will perform and feel. I experienced this in autocross yesterday. On my first run, I was running 37 front and 36 rear. The car was very loose (oversteery). I dropped the rear down a few PSI and there was instantly more grip in the rear. It felt much more planted and stable. The high pressures up front kept the sidewalls stiff which made steering feel noticeably more direct.

3) Do not set your tire pressure to the PSI on the sidewall... Start with something close to the stock 35 front 35 rear and play around with it.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ToySub1946

>__Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ (91W Speed Rated)__<

...
With no help from others I picked these tires off the TireRack website. I live where it rains off and on up to 7 months of the year. Because of the weather here I thought summer tires would not be a good choice. So I looked in the categories of all season tires, and sticking with the Michelin brand.

Summer tires are good with rain. They are not good with low temperatures (below 50 Fahrenheit).

Originally Posted by ToySub1946

The TireRack website compared this model tire to two other brands and stated this brand/model to be the hardest riding of the three. My impression of them is that they are possibly, actually, softer riding than the original equipment Primacy HP tires on my car.

>>My initial impression of these tires still remains...after 3000 miles...the sidewalls are just too soft...too flexible. I have lost about 1/4 of the steering feel which I used to have with the Primacy HP tires.<<

...
Overall I am quite unhappy with this model tire so far. They are somewhat cheaper than the original equipment tires on this car, possibly grip better, but some of the driving fun is missing.

I'd say this model tire would do well on a high end luxury sedan, NOT a tire designed for a sports car or sporty car.

This is something that is often over looked. OEM tires have moderate grip and they are not as shitty as some are saying. When tire rack swapped them with the Bridgestone S04 Pole Position tires, the lap results were almost identical. They had to swap them with a tire from the extreme performance category to have a significant gain: