OFT log with UEL header/ Perrin intake

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Being on pump gas eliminates fuel density as a variable and simplified things. I can rescale your maf for free, just pm me. I'll screenshare with you and show you how to do it so you can do it yourself next time.

Just lurking in here but I have to say that is a very nice thing to do for a fellow member.

[carlitosway6891]

Originally Posted by jamesm

don't mess with that. it's not what it sounds like! lol. no seriously, that's a really good way to screw yourself. just know that the 'wot torque threshold' map curve should look something like your torque curve.

the mistake people make is to go in the wot torque threshold map and increase all the torque values thinking that is going to magically make them more torque. instead, doing so causes the throttle plate to not open all the way. if you'd like to know exactly how all those maps work together and why this is the case pm me. it's far too much to get into here i'd have to screenshare to show you and explain it. dbw throttle is probably one of the most complicated things in our ecu.

I was wondering more if what I was looking at meant you could have two separate throttle maps depending if the sport button was on or off =)

[steve99]

Originally Posted by carlitosway6891

I was wondering more if what I was looking at meant you could have two separate throttle maps depending if the sport button was on or off =)

I think that's what happens sharpens up throttle in "sport" mode as well as adjust traction and stability settings. Although one of the ECU code de-compilers may have to confirm that

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by carlitosway6891

I was wondering more if what I was looking at meant you could have two separate throttle maps depending if the sport button was on or off =)

yes, that is exactly what that means. it's a fairly complicated system that should be fully understood before making any changes though.

ecutek racerom makes doing custom throttle mapping much simpler and easier.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Being on pump gas eliminates fuel density as a variable and simplified things. I can rescale your maf for free, just pm me. I'll screenshare with you and show you how to do it so you can do it yourself next time.

That's extremely generous, sending PM now!

[Malt]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Being on pump gas eliminates fuel density as a variable and simplified things. I can rescale your maf for free, just pm me. I'll screenshare with you and show you how to do it so you can do it yourself next time.

That indeed is very generous.

[steve99]

See info here from PERRIN

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...81&postcount=3

[carlitosway6891]

@shiv this thread has my log file

[Captain Insano]

Originally Posted by steve99

These "canned" tunes are good value and ok if you stick to the standard "mods" they cater for, even then an individual tailored tune is better, that's why they cost more. If its done on a dyno and not an e-tune then it more again.

Bolded part is key. jamesm, all due respect, I appreciate your knowledge in the forum, but you make it sound like running an OTS tune is bad (I don't think you meant it that way, but it reads that way). I understand (and agree with you) jamesm that a custom tune is always best, but you cannot expect an OTS tune to work optimally or even at all when somebody is not running the modifications the OTS map was tuned for - the release notes specifically indicate not to run an aftermarket intake (like Perrin intake here) and you should use the stock intake for these maps/tunes. If you are running the modifications the OTS tunes are designed for they should be perfectly fine/safe for daily driving a car without custom tweaks. If you are not running the modifications they are tuned for, well expect that you WILL have to make tweaks or get a complete custom tune depending on the modifications. Pretty simple and straight forward.

If you tune somebody's car using a stock intake, and they throw on a different aftermarket intake after you have the tune dialed in, should your customer expect their tune to run OK or perfect after that?

The OFT OTS tunes are pretty good "generic" tunes IMHO if you are running the exact modifications they are tuned for. Even on a wide range of fuel (91-93+ octane & E60-E90).

Originally Posted by jamesm

your car should not need learning time after a tune, imho. that log is off-the-scale rich and pulling timing. by 'giving it time to learn', you mean allowing time for fuel and timing corrections to be written in, both of which shouldn't be there in the first place.

just my .02, but one of the primary goals of tuning a car is eliminating fuel trims and knock correction. this whole idea of relying on fuel trims and knock correction to tune your car for you is just not a great idea.

the reason is because it leads to inconsistency in the tune. on the timing side, even the smallest bit of flkc can seriously impact how much power you're making. we were seeing losses of 10hp or more (on a turbo car) from just -1deg flkc on the dyno. the ecu is far too aggressive in pulling timing, and will almost always pull more than is necessary. this is why tuning up to the point of correction and not beyond it is so important. it allows you to run the most timing possible, as tuning into correction just results in the ecu pulling more than you could've gotten away with without it.

on the fueling side, relying on trims is a bandaid for inaccurate calibration. it results in inconsistent open loop AFRs (which is exactly what you're seeing here), and in cars with modified fuel systems (injectors and maf size, mainly) significant drivability issues. obviously running off-the-scale rich is not the way to make power.

though the computer is smart enough to correct the afr back to something near target fueling (given enough time to adjust), it's still far less than ideal particularly on the timing side and should be optimized if possible.

it can be argued that these issues exist in the stock tune (high trims, timing corrections) and they do, but the entire point of tuning is to improve upon it. i don't think it should be accepted that high trims and consistent knock correction are 'ok', and certainly not optimal on a tuned vehicle.

these are the natural downsides of an ots tune. they're generic, and need to suit a range of configurations operating under a wide variety of conditions. they're basically well-developed base maps. the beauty of these particular roms is that they're open and editable, and those looking to get the most out of them should certainly look to take advantage of that rather than just accepting mediocrity as 'the way it is'. if it can be ideal it should be, because that's what we're tuning for in the first place. most of this stuff is so easy to optimize (especially given a solid base) that there just isn't any good reason not to.

ok rant over lol.

[milhouse]

So what's the verdict here? Safe to run an OFT OTS Stage 1 without scaling the MAF on a 2.5" Intake? I ordered an OFT (hasn't arrived yet) but I already have a Perrin 2.5" Intake I'd like to keep. I have no problem rescaling the MAF (if @jamesm is still offering to help guide someone , I, and I am sure the rest of the many Perrin CAI owners, would appreciate the gesture) but I'm not entirely certain on the process.

I am running 91 and not e85, as that's not really available near me.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by milhouse

So what's the verdict here? Safe to run an OFT OTS Stage 1 without scaling the MAF on a 2.5" Intake? I ordered an OFT (hasn't arrived yet) but I already have a Perrin 2.5" Intake I'd like to keep. I have no problem rescaling the MAF (if @jamesm is still offering to help guide someone , I, and I am sure the rest of the many Perrin CAI owners, would appreciate the gesture) but I'm not entirely certain on the process.

I am running 91 and not e85, as that's not really available near me.

It's certainly safe to run Perrin's 2.5" intake. It will just run a bit richer than the stock intake. We have an intake on order and will be tested it on our car. Will revise MAF scaling as necessary and release the info to those who are running it

Shiv

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It's certainly safe to run Perrin's 2.5" intake. It will just run a bit richer than the stock intake. We have an intake on order and will be tested it on our car. Will revise MAF scaling as necessary and release the info to those who are running it

Shiv

Excellent news - now just ship me my OFT...

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by milhouse

Excellent news - now just ship me my OFT...

Yep, I'm sure the guys are on the job

[carlitosway6891]

I didnt get to log it, but yesterday after some spirited driving, for the first time since I've been on stage 2, IAM dropped to .86. Ltft is consistently at -7 give or take 1%....I'm more than sure the perrin cai is the cause so I really can't wait for revised tuning for perrin cai